Please stand by for realtime captions. >> Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining. We will get started in a moment. Before we do, I will provide you with a brief overview of the webinar platform and let you know how you can interact with the presenters. To the right of the presentation you will see a chat box. Enter any questions you have here. There will also be questions throughout the presentation we will ask you to respond to. Just below the chat box is a PDF version of the presentation. You select the document and select download and the browser window will open confirming you wish to download. Once you confirm the download will begin. If you're having technical or audio issues during the event, please click on the help button at the top right of your screen and select troubleshooting. This will your Internet and system making sure they are compatible. Thank you for your attention. I will turn it to the presenters. >> Thank you, Alicia and CJ for sharing the platform with us today. My name is Eesha Bhave and I am the program specialist for futures without violence. Thank you for joining us to talk about adult learning in the context of judicial and law enforcement education. This is the part of the program which is the Institute for leadership in education development funded through the office on violence against women. Through I led we offer courses for grantees on improving the organization, quality and consistency in training and education programs. We offer tools such as this webinar and other once we have done in the past. To assist all people involved in training and education. Today we are talking about judicial and law enforcement education specifically. With us, in addition to myself we have Jennifer White with Futures Without Violence. We also have Judge Ramona Gonzalez from the La Crosse County Circuit Court. And Ofc. David Thomas from the international Association of Chiefs of police. All of these folks will introduce themselves later on in the presentation. They are here and eager to answer any questions you may have throughout this presentation. >> Before we dive into the material, I would like to go over some learning objectives for the time we have together. As a result of the webinar, we hope or disappearance will better be able to identify important and fundamental pieces of designing education for adult learners. We hope participants will be able to discuss the unique needs of judges and law enforcement officers as learners in education on violence against women. We hope you will be able to apply core concepts of adult education to whatever your instructional design course or components may be when working with these specific populations. >> Before we get started we would love to hear from you. In the chat box, please respond to the questions on the PowerPoint slide in front of you which is what you know already about how adults learn. What are some considerations you think about when designing education programs for adults. We will give it a couple minutes and talk about the responses that come in from the chat box. I see many folks are typing. We will give it a minute or two. >> So we see response to definitely review the basics and go from there. Yes. Making sure everyone has a solid foundation of understanding the topic. In our case it is specific to violence against women and educating groups or populations around issues that relate to violence against women and creating a common basis for understanding. The next response is accounting for various learning styles. We will talk about some of the different modalities that may be used in these contexts. Understanding everyone learns differently whether it is visual or auditory are - - or working with their hands. >> Sandy is writing there is a need for interactive work. Yes. Definitely working with adults who may be the experts in their field and they are trying to take their knowledge or way of understanding to the next level. Making sure there's a lot of interactivity and room to learn and to grow on everyone else's expertise. Practical applications says Rebecca. Absolutely. We will talk about that and Jen will talk about that specifically. Gloria is writing we put emphasis on using real-life experiences with our training. Absolutely. Especially when it comes to populations such as judges and law enforcement. That becomes very critical. >> Yes. Even though we are adults we have a short, true attention span. Making sure we can look at elements that are engaging and meaningful to have everyone be present and active and actually learning instead of passively listening. Of course bringing it back to the learning objectives which is what we started this presentation with and what we start all of our educational opportunities with and Carmen is writing don't forget the brakes and snacks. Both of those are important whether you are in school or an adult in a different training opportunity. Thank you to everyone who participated. We will have more opportunities for the chat function and to use the polling question to keep this conversation interactive. At this point I want to turn it to Jen to talk about the needs of all adult learners. >> Thank you, Eesha. Hello everyone. As Eesha said my name is Jennifer White and I'm the program director for curriculum development and feature design at Futures Without Violence. Thank you for the comments. They are all great. All of your answers. I will be talking about a lot of these ideas. Just a little bit of background. About 2005 I started working with the national judicial Institute on domestic violence. My job was to help design curriculum for judges on domestic violence. For those of you who are familiar with the national judicial Institute it was started in 1998. It had been in existence for a while. They had a number of processes they used when thinking about new courses or just addressing the current course that they had already designed on how to keep improving it and evaluating it and keeping it fresh and relevant for judges. That sparked an appreciation in me for adult learning. As well as a curiosity for how and why the processes we used worked. I will share with you some information for the next 15 minutes or so about why some of the processes that are recommended when designing for adults, why they work and what some of the research is behind it. >> You can see on the slide it says Malcolm Knowles created an approach to adult learning. He is the father of Andragogy. There are tons of educational theory as - - theorists and psychologies that have studied the process that is learning. But Malcolm Knowles was credited with looking at how adults specifically learn. How they learn differently than children. Up until he came onto the seam - - seen in his work was published mostly in the 80s. It was focused on education of children. What he did was innovated and he created an approach that was an honest attempt to focus on the adult learner. Whether you choose to call what he designed or created principles are guidelines or assumptions, what it is is a flexible and honest attempt to focus on the adult learner when you are designing education. What he came up with was really a set of core similarities or assumptions that most adult learner share. So when you are thinking about how to design education for adults, you can assume these baseline commonalities. The other innovative thing was he realized that yes adults will have these baseline assumptions that are common to them for the most part. You will also have to consider some contextual things. This is about your learners when you design education. So education training on subject matter let's say domestic violence is not going to look exactly the same for a group of law enforcement officers. It won't as it does for a group of parents that are coming and receiving education. And the parent-teacher organization event. That is obvious. It is interesting to think about why and how and to have a sort of process for thinking through those things strategically when designing education. >> This is his approach for educating adults. As I said this is a transactional model which means it helps guide the transaction that is learning. Essentially it focuses on the process of how we learn rather than the content of what we learn. While the subject matter of our learning is important and it is a factor to consider, it is, according to Knowles, a part of the entire context of the learning transaction. If you think about his approach as an adaptable set of principles, we can use the approach for really any adult learning environment. Take a look at the diagram and you can see in the center it says core adult learning principles. These are as I mentioned, the similarities that are with the adult learner. You can assume that when you come to an educational event that you can have the assumption these commonalities will exist with your learner. I will go through each one and explain it. Number one on the left-hand side, it goes to these core principles is the learners need to know. What that means is as we design education for adults, we should design with an awareness that they need to know why they need to learn something. This is why you may have heard the expression needs assessment. That before you design education you should do a needs assessment. That is the process by which you intentionally gather information whether that information is in person through like a focus group, or an arrangement of individuals that include subject matter experts as well as a representative sample of the target audience you are trying to reach. Also to have a conversation that is really what does the learner need to know on this topic were people free think those needs. Or you can do it through a questionnaire or a survey and information gathering research. Also all of those things combined. This really gives you a sense of why your learner, whoever it is, needs to know about the subject matter you are teaching. It is probably the most important step when you are designing education. It's to take the time to think about the learner and what they need to know and why they need to know it. And to involve the learner, him or herself in answering the question. >> If you look at the second one which is self-concept of the learner. The self-concept of the adult learner is heavily dependent upon self-direction. What that means is in a pure, pure, learning environment it is not something we would do in a [Indiscernible] funded program. But in an adult learning centered approach he would come to a training program and let the actual learners design your agenda. And so you would say let them literally have their hands in the designing of the education program. That is the self-direction of the adult learner. Since we can't do that most of the time and since we do have objectives we are trying to achieve and we have approval processes to meet with our funders it is important to build in opportunities for your learner to be self-directed. Whether that means making a choice about what breakout session they would do or making a choice of who would lead the conversation at the table. The extent to which you can build in those opportunities is helpful. >> Number three is the prior experience of the learner. This is really important. In work and life, an adults experience provides the richest resource. We talked about learning. Basically it's a process. What it is is a process transforming experience into knowledge. When we think about the adult learner, they are very different than a child. A child comes to an education experience looking at the teacher as a fountain or source of everything they need to learn. That teachers there to shape and mold and be the source of the knowledge. An adult doesn't come to a learning process as an empty vessel. Here she comes with a lifetime of experiences and skills and knowledge. It is your job to facilitate the process. To shepherd the people in the room along their path to achieve the objectives. That path will be really a synthesis of an individual's own experiences and appears experiences. And then when those experiences are shared and applied to new information that is how you create knowledge. >> Readiness to learn. Adults come ready to learn when they face a newer difficult situation at work or in life. This comes into play when you happen to know that your audience is made up of learners who did not choose to be there. For instance, many professionals are required to come to training and maybe they are required to go to yours. That is something you will want to think about. If someone is forced to learn it may impact how ready they are to understand and digest information. >> Orientation to learning and in adults it is problem solving and practical. Ice on the chat box a moment ago someone commented about making the material practical. That is important for adult learners. You want to give them an opportunity to problem solve and give them an opportunity to apply the information in some concrete way whether that is a demonstration or case study or an experiment, or all of those things. And then number six. The motivation to learn. Adults are motivated for the most part intrinsically. They are motivated inside. Often it's for personal growth and sometimes it's for achievement or some kind of recognition. May be self-esteem. It is lest - - less often they are motivated by something outside themselves like punishment or fear of punishment because it is a requirement. They hope that adult educators would use these principles as a guide. And adapt their approaches based on contextual factors that you see on the outer rings of these circles. Notice these are individual and situational differences and the goals and the purposes for learning. While the center will show common factors that affect all adults, then you have to think about how a variety of other factors affect adults in a particular situation. That causes adults to behave more or less closely aligned to these core principles. He can meet the needs of your learners or your situation and if you are looking at the second ring and you are thinking about judges and law enforcement officers those would be some ideas you are thinking about as individual and situational differences. You would be thinking about what the jobs are and what the subject matter is. Let's take a judge and a direct - - domestic violence training. In addition to thinking about the average at all and how they learn. Your thinking about all the principles on the left-hand side. You would want to think about judges as a unique class of learners because of their duties and their functions. You will want to think about your subject matter. How does this particularly - - particular subject matter matter? How does the subject matter change the process of how a judge can take in and apply information. How does it affect those core principles? Domestic violence is a soft - - tough subject. It is personal and complicated and complex. It can trigger emotional feelings. The unique aspect of the subject matter really demands that we think about very carefully how best to frame the education in addition to thinking about who the learner is. >> Simply put, when you think about adults and how best to educate adults, they should be involved in the planning and evaluation of their instruction. I talked about the needs assessment piece. Experience, including making mistakes. It provides the basis and the best source of information and knowledge for the adult learner. Your adult learner will be most interested in a subject that has an impact to the job or that is relevant to their life. Again, that is the practicality of the information and the practicality of the way you deliver the information. >> Adult learning is problem centered rather than content oriented. An important piece of thinking about the fact that adults come to the learning environment with all of this experience and knowledge that you really need to extract or shepherd out into the process so others can learn from each other so they have the opportunity to learn that experience to new information. An important part of this is reality that it comes with the side effect that people have habits and biases and presuppositions that will also color how they approach the learning experience. As a designer and facilitator you want to be aware of that and account for that in your design. And come up with ways in your education and activities to help adult - - adults examine those biases so they can learn new things. This is a great resource if you are an adult learning if you are interested in adult learning. This is one of the best sources I consulted with. There is plenty of work for you to review but this is a great one. It has a lot of helpful charts and tips and things. >> This last piece I will talk to about here is not just based on Malcolm Knowles but based on all of the progeny that came after him and all of the work which reflects basic ideas that we try to incorporate in our trainings here and also in our work with others. >> Adults learn best when it's a safe environment. Since so much is based on sharing, that safety piece is very important. I have already talked about the self-direction and also the need for a needs assessment. Social comfort. This doesn't really mean what you might think. It's not about socializing but about the surroundings. It is actually about having brakes and giving people a chance to go get some food. It's about making the environment as comfortable as possible for the learners to be able to engage. Engagement, adults learn best when they can engage with each other. The materials so that whatever you are teaching them and the facilitator. Those are the three ways adults should get. They learn best when they have goals and when there is an opportunity for them to evaluate their own progress. So through a self-evaluation or continual evaluation process built into the program. Lastly, adults learn best when material is relatable or true to life and what they are doing. >> That was a lot of information. I could talk with you all about this for days. It's a passion of mine. I will talk - - turn it back over to Eesha . >> You all should see the chat box up. We want to do a quick check and reflection. Do the ideas that Jen talked about with adult learning and what learners need to be successful in education programs resonate with you from your experiences of having top programs? And why or why not? We will give you a minute or two to respond. >> It looks like there are lots of folks typing. We will just give it a minute. He met - - >> So they say yes adults are different then young Leonards and you must be able to meet their needs. You need to keep their attention or they may leave. Lisa says yes when it comes to thinking about biases and presuppositions which adults tend to have more so than young learners. Sarah says meeting goals and relating to real life examples. And then Jessica is saying offering goals and opportunities to gauge their own learning. So engaging in that self-directed or self reflective process is critical. >> I just want to add one quick thing, Eesha, if you don't mind. I was looking at Jessica's comment. Giving them goals and engaging in learning. One thing we learned in evaluating the judicial Institute from social sciences was how very often when you do evaluations they look at did you like the trainer? They are focused on how the trainer did rather than what did you learn and how will you apply this work - - this information to your work. We changed our evaluation and made it a part of the ongoing process of education. So every half-day the learners examine what they learned and how they can apply it so the actual evaluation becomes a part of the learning process rather than an afterthought of the learning process. >> And they also said we recently watched this happen when we announced a specific training. That is great. When you are able to advertise it and show that you are conducting a training with adult principles in mind is where you can be the most effective. Thank you, everyone for participating in that discussion. We are going to move right away to a poll opportunity. If I could have your assistance. Do you think your design or delivery considerations are different when the learners are judges in law enforcement quest that is what we are here to talk about today. I will give you a moment to respond yes, no, or I don't know based on your previous experiences. We are starting to get responses come in. About 26 people and counting which is about 96 percent of our audience is indicating the design and delivery considerations are different when the learners or judges are law-enforcement. Then we have a few people saying that is not always the case. That could be true. >> Thank you for participating in that poll. >> I would like to move now to talk with Dave and Judge Gonzalez. Before we talk about some of the different considerations that we think about when working with judges or law enforcement, Judge Gonzalez could I have you introduce yourself and maybe share a little bit about yourself and your background so we know the perspective you are offering in this conversation. >> Of course. It is a pleasure to be with everyone. I am a general jurisdiction judge sitting in La Crosse, Wisconsin. I was elected in 1995. I have been reelected several times since then. I am going to be running another election starting this December with our election in April. As a general jurisdiction judge I have also, since the beginning of my career, been involved in judicial education. When your last name is Gonzalez and you are woman of color in Wisconsin and the first woman elected in that situation you suddenly become the individual that everyone wants at every training. Adult education has been a part of my career in life since I graduated law school. I have taught lawyers and now I have been teaching judges for over 25 years. I was very pleased to be part of the domestic violence Institute that Jen has told you about. This issue of adult education and training is close to my heart. I have trained judges internationally. I have trained multidisciplinary groups and each one presents its own challenge. I cannot wait until we get some meaty question. I am happy to have everyone here with us. >> Thank you, Judge Gonzalez. Dave, can I have you do the same and introduce yourself and share about your background >> That afternoon, everyone. Thank you for having me. I am a retired police officer from Montgomery County, Maryland. I started law enforcement in 1986. I am going into my 32nd year. I went in with a goal of effectively addressing violence against women crimes. I started the first domestic violence unit in the state of Maryland in 1997. When I left there, when I left Montgomery County, I did a short stint at the governor's office on crime control and prevention as an executive advisor on violence against women issues before going to Johns Hopkins University and teaching for just under 13 years in their division of public safety leadership which taught all law enforcement officers who were finishing their bachelors and getting their masters. I did all the training work with them. I then did a short stint at the Pentagon. The office on sexual assault and prevention for the Air Force before coming to where I am now with the international Association of Chiefs of police where I am a program manager and I get to do a lot of training at the state, local, national, and some international levels. It is an honor to be here and I look forward as Judge Gonzalez said, to get into the meat of this. >> Thank you. We appreciate you being here. Just to get right to it, Judge Gonzalez I would love to hear your thoughts on what if anything is different when it comes to training judges. In this case given your experience in working with judges and if there are any challenges to do some of the things to make it easier to work with judges? If you could talk for a couple minutes about those first two question. >> Certainly. Judges just by our makeup think they know everything. And it is very difficult for judges to admit when they don't know something. You start with a room that you have to get to a point where they can accept the information you are trying to give. Yet you have to do it in a way that they don't really understand that this is what you are up to. It is a challenge, but you have to remember what they come to the room with. Many of them, understanding the lives or not there is any more. Once you are sworn in as a drudge you are a judge 24/7. Everything you do is scrutinized. Everything from going to the liquor store and buying supplies for your party or going to whatever movie you go to or what you take out of the library. If you are elected or appointed your life is not your own. You are a judge 24/7. That brings a really interesting twist to when you are trying to train judges especially in the issues of violence against women. Part of what they have been told and trained as they are to remain impartial. Trying to get judges to understand that they can come to the training and understand it and not be seen as taking sides I think is one of the bigger challenges that you have. All of the things that Jen talked about today about adult education applies wholeheartedly to judges but one of the important things I have to do when I am getting judges training together is a have to answer the questions, why is what I am about to do with them going to give better decisions. - -? In their heart of hearts no matter where they come from it's about doing their job better and getting them to believe the information I am giving them is getting down to that place. When it comes to the question of violence against women, you really have to frame it in the context of making better decisions to make community safer. And that is a challenge. >> Thank you. David you have anything to add when it comes to training or working with law enforcement? I think a lot of what Judge Gonzalez applies for being in law enforcement and being a 24/7 publicly scrutinized job and maybe some of those elements of fairness and neutrality that commit. Are there any other aspects that come to mind when thinking about training law-enforcement ? >> There are. Law enforcement tends to like to challenge things. And they are always on high alert. Thus knowing that is the nature of the individuals that you will work with, you need to be prepared for that and meet them where they are. They are definitely going to be challenges to the training. Many especially in the area of violence against women is distilling the myths known throughout society. If you think about it that is not too surprising since that's where it comes from. It is distilling the myths and that in a way kind of like what the judge alluded to and making it their own idea. Letting the light come on for them. That means to me setting up scenarios they can agree with that they are nodding their head with all the time. And putting violence against women issues into perspective. So they can see it for what it is. Reminding them that some of those blind spots exist because of myths and so forth. And because of implicit bias or unconscious bias that we always have. Reminding them that it's one thing to be doing something and not being aware of it. Once you have been made aware than you have a duty to address it. >> Absolutely. I think that brings me to my second question a little bit which is what are some steps you can take in advance of trainings or during trainings to improve the outcomes of the training programs? >> It's preparing for those common roadblocks and challenges. Making it their idea. One of the ways of doing this is really pulling from their past experience. Letting them express - - they have opinions. They have opinions. Take advantage of those opinions and so forth. Take advantage of the myths and biases I know they have in place it into perspective and one of the things that I like training on is making those misdemeanor arrests in domestic violence situation. In Maryland I was having a problem in the domestic violence unit with officers not wanting to make an arrest or clearly there was probable cause. It is not a shall arrest state it's a preferred arrest state. I was getting reports getting across my desk saying that the violence was minor in nature. My thought was to who? And so what I did was in an in-service I stood up and say I would get everyone to go through and there's been domestic violence and there is yelling and screaming going on and at some point the young lady in the case went to leave the room and her husband grabbed her by the wrist and told her to stay right there. She cringed and stopped and he let her go and at some point someone called the police. I said who in the room will arrest them for the assault? It is assault the unwanted touching of one body by another. I am not going to make that arrest. It's minor and everything let her get a warrant. You respond to the house. I am the guy in this scenario. I am telling you [Indiscernible]. I grab you by the wrist and I say I am leaving right now. What will happen to you? >> Everyone will lock me up for assaulting the police. As police officers we have all this training on defensive track which I thought and we have all of this stuff on our back belt. Yet we will lock this guy up for assaulting us when they aren't going to do the same what is the deal? They have to be able to walk in those shoes. They have to realize - - I guarantee you, she is a lot more inferior than they are. They are locking him up because he touched police. >> One thing I have start to understand and I have had officers come up to me years later to say I never really understood it that way. You explain it like that and it is making them walk in those shoes and making them answer the question of how do I want to be treated? >> Meeting a learner in this case, a law-enforcement learner where they are and capitalizing on the experience and starting to shift some minds. Judge Gonzalez, do you have anything else to add when you talk about advance of trainings or trainings themselves? >> Dave went to the training themselves. Part of the issue with judges is they need to be able to trust that it is a safe learning environment just like all of us need to understand that what we are doing there in the training is about education and will not come to bite us later. Part of that problem is trying to establish some trust so one of my favorite things to do, and one thing I found that works, is I get to the training in advance of the training. I do a lot of what we would call meeting before the meeting, before the training. I might find some allies in the room by doing that. If I have - - I think it's important for training judges to have a judge in the front of the room. The judge isn't necessarily the brains behind the operation. If I - - my co-presenter will be with me and we will start that atmosphere of trust before we say word one in the front of the room. You have to have that to be able to move forward. I have found it improves outcomes. If you start in a place of trust, it makes you easier - - it easier for people to share. It is about a shared experience to get to the information you are trying to impart. >> Thank you. Switching gears a little bit, and I think you started to talk about this. I really want to pick your brains on talking about gender bias as it relates to education on gender-based violence. What are some approaches you take from substantive course offering perspective in your specific approaches when it comes to addressing gender bias. If I could have you respond to that question first. >> It looks like Dave has disappeared I will go first. >> I think his example that he gave is perfect which is to try to have the audience see things from a neutral perspective as opposed to disregarding the violence is there because of the gender of the individual you are looking at. That is really a very good one. The other thing is as you are presenting, specifically with judges, they will also challenge as Dave talked about. You need to have done that work in advance. Incorporating those in your teaching audience to be able to speak to whatever you are trying to challenge is crucial. If the groom sees US defensive or feminist leaning only. You will lose the room. With judges that hold business about remaining impartial is important and walking that fine line between someone saying it's gender bias versus where's my neutrality. It's a conversation you need to have with your co-presenters, and it needs to be put in your curriculum. You need to address it head on. Most particularly I think with examples. One of the ways I have to thought of to use is to use gender-neutral names and flip it around and have people find out who is assuming we have one gender or the other it becomes a teaching moment when people make assumptions and they realized they were not necessarily the ones that everyone else was thinking. I think Dave joined us back. >> I got cut off. I'm sorry. >> No problem. >> I like starting out so that everyone is on the same page. Even though some time in these audiences, there is an assumption that they know the terms. I want to make sure that we talk about biases we talk about the positive or negative beliefs about a person group or so forth. And then, going on to explain between explicit and implicit bias. The explicit meaning the overt bias that most people think about especially the negative aspects and then the implicit bias, that unconscious bias. And then, have them - - as the judge said, provide an example of the outcomes of gender bias and talk about how many people are familiar with Dedham day? And do they know why denim day came to be? And then go into the story, the case that happened over in Italy were the judge made the decision that this woman could not have been raped because she was - - her jeans were so tight that she must have had to help get them off in order for this guy to rape her. It was ridiculous. He was buying in the myths associated based on gender. >> I think acknowledging - - Dave I definitely agree, defining gender bias in the implicit and explicit ways in which it can present in adult learners in your training programs and then recognizing it and calling it out for what it is. It helps to build trust within the training program so yes it's okay and we will take on these difficult topics. Moving from gender bias, what does it look like when we are teaching are talking about oppression and cultural norms are differences in topics of gender-based violence. Again are there approaches you have taken that were successful? Are there substantively and judge Gonzalez maybe we can have you answer first? >> I will but first of all, Elizabeth asked the question earlier about what if instead of using gender-neutral terms you explained male and female programs. Can we talk about that? Judges are going to be late to the party on gender-neutral terms. It is difficult for them to wrap their brains around some of these processes. I am doing training right now on gender-neutral programs to another training grant that I have. That is a difficult conversation to have. It needs to be presented that they understand the violence against women or violence in the family had to be explored more about violence in the family. That is we have same-sex couples and lots of other experiences that are still using violence, but they lose track of the fact that it is a power and control thing and want to go right to the fact that it is a crime and it does not matter what the sex is. I appreciate the question. I think one of the problems that presents itself when we are training law-enforcement and judges, because judges have a tendency to become paternalistic. In becoming paternalistic, sometimes they can in fact victimize the victim more by substituting their perspective to what the victim wants. That is a hard issue for everyone to get across. Understanding you have to see individuals as human beings and you have to look at the situation based upon the history of oppression or the cultural differences individuals may have and that your social norms may not necessarily be the ones that appear in front of you. That is a difficult conversation to have, but it is a conversation that must be have - - had in the context of the subject matter in order to get judges where they need to be which is to be making decisions not based on implicit bias which is a difficult thing. I don't know if that answers your question. I wanted to say that. >> I wonder if you might also address the follow-up question. I think it is a common one which is I think the difference that female judges and male judges might have or might not. >> I think when someone puts on that black robe, - - in fact I have found some of my female colleagues being more paternalistic than the male ones. It depends on the norms and having an opportunity to put together a curriculum that actually brings this forth to your audience in a respectful and empathy raising way is really important. For instance, I don't think there is - - has ever been a more impactful exercise then the walking in her shoes exercise that we do. And having both being able to fully understand what it feels like to be in the skin of the individual who is going through some of these issues. And some of the struggles that they have. And understanding the loss of power that you feel in these situations and the role the judge has in allowing that person to take power back. That can be powerful. >> I think - - this is Jen, I would agree. I think two quick points about that. What is the power of experiential learning which is what that is. Also some people talk about transformative learning which is when you have a shocking experience or something that really strikes that you that helps to urge on how you your thinking changes. I think it is also important to remember, and this is a tip for designing education, how you place that in terms of your activities and making sure you have taken the time to build that relationship as you mentioned with the entire off - - audience and have a sense in them trusting you before you put them in that learning experience. >> If you don't do it that way, it becomes a challenging thing. Then you want to wind up with a defensive audience instead of a receptive audience. >> We will let people continue typing. Did you have any thoughts on teaching issues of oppression and cultural norms for any successes or challenges you have had working with law enforcement? >> This is an area that I have been - - I have tried to address in an effective way. Depending on how much time I have with the group, I take different checks. If it's a shorter time or a workshop, I will make use of a video to stage things to have a jumping off point. One of the ones I like to use is the Lynnwood video about the victim who was not believed by the responding officers. In fact the officer, the detective in the case ended up charging this young lady with a false report. Because of her circumstances that the time she ended up pleading guilty and so forth and fast-forward two years later we find out that not only was she telling the truth but it was a serial rapist to in the interim had raped other women. He was found and had pictures of this victim. In a camera that she had said he stole from her when he committed the rate. We broke that down to look at the myths and so forth that the officers in the case went with. We start to question why someone would come in with that mindset and talk about if you come in with a hypothesis you tend to try to prove it. What is that based on? That has tended to work out really well. And then with that, providing up-to-date research coupled with promising practices. When I have a longer time like when I taught Johns Hopkins I taught social problems. They had to address misogyny and racism. They read a book called weight like me and they read another book called the [Indiscernible] paradox. We had facilitated discussions. I told them I didn't care what side you came down on, but you come with facts and circumstances and pack a lunch and be ready to go. When you have - - when you make a statement and a stand, we watched the movie crash and process that. We tried to get them to look through different lenses. Ones that maybe they had never looked through before. It was transforming to a lot of these offices. One thing that ended up coming out of the class was I didn't think would come. These classes were all police officers. At anywhere from 24 to 28 people. Usually anywhere from 10 to 15 percent of the class was female. There was not one class that we - - that I had at some point during the class the female officer didn't reveal that she had been domestic violence victims. It really went a long way to change the minds of these officers. >> I am sure in that case they created a safe environment in which that trainee could come forward with that disclosure. And have it be an empathetic setting. We do have one more question. I think we have mostly answered it. I will put it up. In case there is anything that you would like to add. What it takes to be an effective trainer. Anything you might not have covered but of course we will have questions at the end. People may want to elaborate more. >> I would say goes back to this and we could demonstrate that we walked in their shoes. And that we know where they are coming from and we understand the lens they are looking through. They tend to buy-in a lot more and a lot better. >> I would just add the most important thing you can do is not lose sight of the fact that you are a facilitator. Getting people planning and making it happen and some people practice what you are trying to present to them is crucial. Just talking about it isn't enough. You have to build things in curriculum. Using video like Dave mentioned is a great vehicle for getting that done. You can actually watch what you want to make sure they know and then have them respond specifically to that activity. Getting judges to make decisions and understanding what it's like to make decisions on the facts. I think it's very crucial. >> I think one thing I've had to make myself do is be more patient. I want them to get there quicker sometimes. Some groups get there quicker than others. Some it's questionable whether they get there at all. >> Some will never get there. That is okay. >> You have to realize that and really what the judge alluded to is allowing for that peer learning. There is a lot of knowledge in the room usually. If you set it up right, a lot of the training does happen from the peers. That is pretty impactful and pretty impressive without them really knowing it. I would say the last thing is just I don't think I can be too prepared. I haven't much of a depth of knowledge about the topic. Naysayers will try to take you in all kind of different tangents. If you can effectively address the issue and then bring it back to center, then you are a lot better off. >> Like we like to say having backups to backups when it goes to education program. Whether it is knowledge and fax or other activities. Judge Gonzalez, I will turn it to you to touch on any other unique learning needs of judges that we may not have covered already. >> I love the slide because the slide that you have in front of you really highlights what I would hope our audience would take into consideration when they are formulating curriculum and planning trains. Just a couple things I would like to highlight for you. I would venture to guess that a lot of your training would be to judges you know. And so be really careful with regard to the issues of ethics and vicarious trauma. Judges have a unique position that they have to be impartial. They also have an obligation to train and to import that to their community. If you're looking for judicial partners and the judge says I am prohibited to do that, don't let that be the end of the conversation. Structure your training so they can participate. If you are going to talk about one side. If you incorporate both prosecutors and defense attorneys that will assist judges coming through and getting that and more comfortable with you. Also understand if you have a judge who has been through traumatic events in your community, that you need to let that work its way through a little bit before you approach that judge. Don't be shy about including a judge because you think that they would not be receptive to the request because of something that happened in the community. As Emily indicated, judges don't like to be told how to do their job. Judges want to do the job well. Using the guide that was set forth, understanding that judges are in a position where they can make or break the community based on how they do their job. It is important to be able to not leave them out of the neck - - next one. If you have training what other multidisciplinary training you may have. Encouraging your judicial officers to be leaders and encourage those to attend training and be part of it can make that bridge between your community and theirs. That is crucial. >> We expect judges to be all things to all people. But the national Association of State judicial educators indicates this is a priority for judges. Really in our heart of hearts we want to be fair and we want to do the right thing. Helping judges to become the best judges they can be is the job of everyone in the community. In doing so, it helps everyone who comes before the judge to have more confidence in the decisions being made. The slides are there for you. I think in the end, consider, I think, what it is what you want from a judge. I think in the bottom analysis, what you want for the judge is you want them to make decisions based on fact and law and that are based with the full understanding of what is a benefit to your community. They cannot do that in a vacuum. They have to have that knowledge. They have to come to the knowledge in a way that makes them believe they are the ones that came to it. You have a challenge in putting together those trainings. I think if you engaged partners, we will all be successful. >> Dave if you could talk a little bit about or just review a little bit about the unique aspects of law enforcement learners to help us closeout this webinar. Or start closing out the webinar. >> Law enforcement officers, we consider ourselves trained observers. Realizing that it makes it that much more of a challenge when you come into train these observers. You definitely want to have up to date materials. You want to have the proper pedigree and background. I think one of the - - for me teaching at our police Academy for a number of years, what I saw them it was a instructor and they didn't have the credibility. They do shoot the messenger. If you don't shoot the messenger and that is credible. We have to understand it that these individuals may operate in their jobs in a high state of peer and anxiety. It can be a good thing if you use it properly. To keep the community safe. It helps you to be on edge. If it's not channeled or addressed correctly, that is something that can be negative. That is something it is important for agencies to train their officers on so they don't get cynical. That is where the anger comes from. One reason we are hard to reach is we have the guard up that trying to keep themselves safe. From the first day of the Academy officers are taught that your number one job is to go home safe and that is one of the things that if you know law enforcement like I do, I use that to my advantage. Especially when talking about violence against women. We are talking about keeping everyone say. If we keep victims of violence if we are investing in keeping the community safe. We are investing in keeping us as officer safe. Because if we do our jobs right as officers and agencies, we are a part of the community. We are not occupiers. Look at the mass shootings over the last year. Look at how many have an intimate partner violence connection. How many shooters have intimate partner violence convictions and arrests in their life. My question is when we had them in our crosshairs and we had a chance did we do everything we could to hold them accountable to make certain they didn't have access. To make certain those victims did have access to services. When it comes to training and I had this and use it to enhance the learning. I like to go into these trainings and I tell them ahead of time. I say I want to walk out of here learning something too. With all the experience in this room I know I can be taught something more. Let's learn how to keep each other safe. It's important to that as was mentioned earlier that we allow for small group of discussion. It's incredible the amount of learning that comes in those and how even though we are a hierarchy of military style type of organizations and traditionally that is the way we have educated our personnel. We need to take more advantage of that. We are still doing a lot of that and the national leadership Institute for chiefs and deputy chiefs. We started doing those trainings in 2004. And we really found we get the benefit where they get to break down issues. And how it helps learners of both types. Because of the opportunity to be able to share. >> I think we have some educational tips in case you wanted to cover any of those. >> I am going to try to quickly get through these last ones. We want to provide them - - provide learners an opportunity to utilize the skills that they have and the analytical capabilities that they have. We want to - - we have to realize that they want to hear from people in their own profession. That being said, they have to realize the benefit of the coordinated community response. They have to realize how much they can benefit by those other professionals in the criminal justice systems and the communities. That is where it is important. I love team teaching with judges and prosecutors and advocates. Because first it's the knowledge that is added to the room and how much I can learn to do my job and we also are teaching them what they should be doing in their communities. Working hand-in-hand rather than being in stovepipes. And when we do it that way we help them to help their community. When it comes to explicit bias I would like to facilitate a discussion getting them to understand. I talked before about getting them to walk in those shoes without realizing it. For officers, it is to ask them especially in today's society. I like to say just because of the uniform they were how many times were they wrongfully accused of something in how they were treated in certain situations. And pointing out that in and of itself is bias that is implicit. These people don't even know me and they say this about me. They say it's turning the page so they can see what it is like. Then we can start talking about subjects that they may not as willing or want to talk about as much. And finally, in training and law enforcement we want to enhance the ability to analyze and make decisions based on what they have done in the past. And on what we are trying to teach at the moment. It is keeping them actively engaged in the training through small group and large groups as I mentioned earlier. And making sure the problem solving that happens is experience based. >> At this point I want to turn it to Jen to help bring us home. >> Thank you, Eesha, Judge Gonzalez, and Dave. I want to give us as much as - - time as possible for question so I won't cover much that is on the slides. Most of this has been covered around the importance of team teaching and utilizing the learning principles. One of the big things that came out of the chat box and also through our conversations is the ideas around the way people learn in terms of styles and preferences and think. There is a lot of interesting research on that. And how to accommodate that. The quickest answer is that the best way to accommodate the fact that people learn differently is to diversify how you deliver your activities. And to limit the use of lecture. If we are talking about the fact that adult learners come to the table with a huge storehouse of experience and knowledge and if your job is to extract that knowledge, and help them apply it to new information, if you just lecture at them you're missing the whole extracting the knowledge piece. Lectures are about the lecturer. Lectures are about how much time do I as a presenter have? How much information can I jampacked into my amount of time? Other types of activities are more about the learners. The best way you can accommodate all of the ways people learn in this training is to diversify the activities. To diversify your activities is to avoid the agenda trap. The agenda trap you will hear a lot at least in my experience where you hear you guys have an agenda and you want us to drink the Kool-Aid. You want to make us into social workers. The best way to avoid that is to provide a form and an opportunity for learners to learn from each other and share their experiences and provide them information and to give them a chance to apply it and come out with their own opinions. Both Dave and Ramona have said how to apply this. To decide for themselves how to process the information. It's important to allow the space for that. And to allow that experiential learning to take place. >> I think, Eesha, we will do questions. >> Yes. With our last few minutes remaining if you have any questions that you have been holding onto throughout the 90 minutes feel free to put that in the chat box. I will read them aloud and have either of our presenters respond. It looks like people are typing. We will give it a minute. >> Dave and Judge Gonzalez, you both talked about great resources or activities that you used in the past. I am wondering if we could get some of those to share with our participants. Like the video you mentioned or maybe just some information on the in her shoes activity. >> Eesha I can send that to you and if you have email addresses and we can share that information. >> Sure. >> The gender pronoun training I was talking about is something that comes out of the juvenile defense fund. We can provide that information as well. >> Perfect. If folks are looking to access we will have you covered there. We will give another minute. I see folks typing. So Sarah Murray is asking how receptive do you find your specific audiences to discussing intimate partner violence in LGBTQ communities ? do you have experience in training on those topics? May be using case scenarios that were successful? >> This could be for both Judge Gonzales and day. >> This is Judge Gonzales. I found my audience to be receptive. The thing about it is sometimes the most receptive audience you find in the strangest places. I did training in Kansas I did not think that would be receptive talking about the issues but they were. I think people are beginning to understand that violence is universal and that we have not been addressing the need of the LGBTQ community. Our own implicit biases have stopped us from doing that. I am very optimistic about that kind of training. I am talking about training large jurisdictions and small one. If it's approached to context and learning, I start with some statistics as to the LGBTQ community spread across the country. When I say things like there is a significant number of LGBTQ parents that are adopting in places like the Dakotas, they look at me like I am nuts. It's true. We can't keep our heads in the sand anymore. It is relevant and an important topic to explore. >> It is absolutely relevant. It is overdue is a topic that is being discussed and trained upon. We are just starting to break through. I did training out in California last year. In our gender bias - - in the law enforcement response to sexual assault and domestic violence, we had five demonstration sites in the country right now we are working with that we are bringing this training too. So they can effectively address this underserved community. It's being received pretty well. There is some pushback. Over the years, I am used to push back and ready for it. >> Then Gloria is asking a question. Are there current videos or clips recommended to use with law enforcement training? Many of the ones Dave found are outdated. >> There are. I will have to find out who is the best person to get them to - - we at the ICP put together a four part DVD for law enforcement training. It's divided in four parts in order that it can be used for roll call or a standalone training. It comes complete with a facilitator's guide. I can get them the link for it where you can order it. You can download it. That is one of the most up-to-date ones that we have seen that has been used across the country that has been very popular. >> Feel free to send that my way. All the participants that are on we can send you the link if you're interested in ordering or accessing the resources from ICP. If there are no other questions this is a good place to stop. Thank you so much again, Judge Gonzalez, and Dave for joining us this afternoon. Thank you to the teams for letting us use and connect on the Adobe connect platform. Of course thank you to the office on violence against women at the Department of Justice for continuing to fund this important work. You all should be able to close out of your screens. It will go right to a webinar evaluation. We take your feedback seriously and use it to improve all of our programming, and there is also an opportunity to request a certificate if you want one. The webinar is recorded and will be posted on www.futureswithoutviolence.org/webinar. You will get an email as well with the webinar recording as well as all the resources that were mentioned in our time together today. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful rest of your week. >> Thank you. Make sure everyone notices that Lisa gave us a resource as well. Thank you, Lisa. >> That is actually I believe the video I was talking about. >> Perfect. >> She gave us the link. That is even better. >> Yes. >> Thank you, everyone. >> Thank you. >> [ Event Concluded ]