I'LL JUST GIVE EVERYONE A COUPLE MINUTES TO CONNECT. >> HI, EVERYONE. WELCOME. JUST GIVING EVERYONE JUST A MOMENT TO CONNECT. WE'LL GET STARTED. >> HI, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. MY NAME IS ANNETTE WILLIAMS. I'M WITH THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF JUVENILE AND FAMILY COURT JUDGES, JUST HELPING TO SUPPORT TODAY'S WEBINAR. I JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT ENGLISH CLOSED CAPTIONING IS AVAILABLE TODAY. JUST CLICK ON THE CHAT ICON WHERE I'LL BE DROPPING THE ENGLISH STREAM TEXT LINK. I JUST SENT THAT NOW. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS DURING TODAY'S SESSION, YOU CAN ALSO UTILIZE THE Q&A OR THE CHAT. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY TECH ISSUES, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IN THE CHAT AND WE'LL TROUBLESHOOT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO JEN TO GET STARTED. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, ANNETTE. HI, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS JENNIFER WHITE. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF LEARNING AND LEADERSHIP AT FUTURES WITHOUT VIOLENCE, AND I'M VERY EXCITED TO BE HERE WITH YOU TODAY TO DISCUSS LESSONS LEARNED FROM JUDICIAL EDUCATION ON ELDER ABUSE. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I JUST WANT TO TAKE A QUICK MOMENT TO THANK THE OFFICE ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN FOR THEIR SUPPORT OF THIS PROJECT AND TO MENTION THAT OUR WONDERFUL PROGRAM MANAGER IS WITH US TODAY, JANICE GREEN, AND JANICE IS -- HAS BEEN PART OF THIS PROJECT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND THE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM, AND IS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM EITHER DURING OUR QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD TODAY OR VIA EMAIL, AND WE WILL PUT HER EMAIL IN THE CHAT FOR YOU ALL TO SEE. THANK YOU SO MUCH, JANICE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY. >> THANK YOU. >> AND I WOULD LOVE FOR OUR WONDERFUL FACULTY TO TAKE A COUPLE OF MOMENTS TO JUST SAY HELLO, INTRODUCE YOURSELVES, AND I'M GOING TO START WITH JUDGE JUHAS. >> GOOD MORNING, GOOD AFTERNOON, I GUESS, DEPENDS SORT OF WHERE YOU ARE. MY NAME IS MIKE JUHAS, I'M A FAMILY LAW JUDGE IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. I HAVE BEEN ON THE BENCH SLIGHTLY OVER 21 YEARS AND HAVE SPENT ALL OF THAT TIME IN FAMILY LAW DEALING WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, ELDER ABUSE, THAT SORT OF THING. I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE. THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME TO DO THIS. >> THANK YOU, JUDGE. CANDACE? >> HELLO, EVERYONE. I'M CANDACE HEISLER, SPEAKING TO YOU FROM THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA. MY BACKGROUND IS AS A PROSECUTOR IN SAN FRANCISCO FOR 25 YEARS. HAVING RETIRED FROM THAT, I HAVE SPENT ALMOST AS LONG AS AN INDEPENDENT CONSULTANT IN THE AREAS OF ELDER ABUSE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, AND THE INTERSECTION OF ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. AND I HAVE THE GREAT PLEASURE OF BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH BOTH JEN WHITE, OUR HOST, AND JUDGE MARK JUHAS ON THE CALIFORNIA PROGRAMS THAT WE'LL BE DESCRIBING. THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION TO BE HERE. >> THANK YOU, CANDACE. AND JUST QUICKLY, ALSO WANTED TO THANK ANNETTE FROM NCJFCJ FOR HELPING US TODAY TO PUT ON THE WEBINAR. ♪♪ AND TO VIVIAN, WHO IS PART OF OUR TEAM AT FUTURES, WHO ALSO HELPED SUPPORT THE PRODUCTION OF OUR WEBINAR TODAY. SO, THANK YOU BOTH. SO, WE ARE HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT JUDICIAL EDUCATION ON ELDER ABUSE AND ABUSE IN LATER LIFE, SO WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO DO IS JUST SHARE WITH YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GOALS THAT WE HAVE FOR TODAY, WHY WE'RE COMING TOGETHER ON THIS TOPIC IN PARTICULAR, AND THEN OUR OBJECTIVES FOR OUR 90-MINUTE SESSION THIS MORNING, THIS AFTERNOON, DEPENDING ON WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. SO OUR GOAL, AS WE DESIGNED THIS SESSION TODAY, COLLECTIVELY, ALL OF US WHO ARE ON AS FACULTY AND PARTNERS, IS TO INSPIRE JUDGES AND JUDICIAL OFFICERS TO SEEK FURTHER EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL AS SUPPORT GENERALLY TO HELP MANAGE CASES OF ELDER ABUSE IN THE COURTS. AND SO, TO THAT END GOAL, WHAT WE HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH TODAY FOR YOU ALL IS THAT YOU WILL BE BETTER ABLE TO DESCRIBE THE IMPORTANCE OF ACCESS TO JUDICIAL EDUCATION ON ABUSE IN LATER LIFE AND ELDER ABUSE, TO IDENTIFY FUNDAMENTAL COMPONENTS OF JUDICIAL EDUCATION THAT ARE ESSENTIAL FOUNDATIONS FOR JUDGES PRESIDING OVER THESE CASES, AND TO CONSIDER HOW KEY LEARNINGS FROM, IN PARTICULAR, THE CALIFORNIA JUDICIAL EDUCATION REPLICATION OF OUR NATIONAL INSTITUTE APPLIES TO YOUR OWN CONTINUING EDUCATION AS A JUDGE OR JUDICIAL OFFICER. SO, THAT'S A LOT. THAT'S A MOUTHFUL. ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WE ARE HOPING TO DO TODAY IS TO REALLY TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE -- OUR NATIONAL JUDICIAL INSTITUTE ON ABUSE IN LATER LIFE, AND THE CALIFORNIA-SPECIFIC VERSION OF IT, BOTH OF WHICH HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW. SO, WE HOPE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THOSE PROGRAMS WERE CREATED, HOW THEY HAVE EVOLVED, HOW THEY CONTINUE TO EVOLVE AND CHANGE WITH THE NEEDS OF OUR CONSTITUENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. FIRST OFF, WE WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE OFFICE ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN TRAINING AND SERVICES AND ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM, WHICH IS THE GRANT PROGRAM THAT I MENTIONED JANICE GREEN MANAGES AT THE OFFICE ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND THE PROGRAM HAS SEVERAL COMPONENTS. THE PIECE OF THE PROGRAM THAT WE WILL BE FOCUSING ON TODAY IS REALLY A PIECE OF THE TRAINING PROGRAM WHERE WE FOCUS ON THE TRAINING OF JUDGES AND JUDICIAL OFFICERS. THERE ARE ALSO COMPANION TRAINING PROGRAMS THAT FOCUS ON PROSECUTORS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. AND THAT IS ONE PIECE OF THE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM. BUT THE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM FUNDS COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY TO PROVIDE BETTER SERVICES TO OLDER ADULTS WHO ARE EXPERIENCING ABUSE. THE PROGRAM FOCUSES ON VICTIM SERVICES, CROSS-TRAINING, AND THE BUILDING OF COORDINATED COMMUNITY RESPONSES. THE GRANTEE PROGRAMS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE MLU PARTNERS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, PROSECUTOR OFFICES, VICTIM SERVICES, AND ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES. BOTH CANDACE AND JANICE HAVE WORKED WITH MANY OF THE -- WELL, WITH ALL OF THE GRANTEE COMMUNITIES FOR SEVERAL YEARS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PROGRAM, AND THERE'S A STRONG EMPHASIS IN THE PROGRAM ON VICTIM SAFETY AND OFFENDER ACCOUNTABILITY. JANICE IS AVAILABLE, AS I SAID, VIA EMAIL. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, IF YOU'RE HERE FROM A COMMUNITY WHO HAS INTEREST IN POTENTIALLY APPLYING FOR THOSE GRANTS, YOU CAN DEFINITELY EMAIL JANICE TO FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THAT. AND WE WILL BE REFERENCING THE PROGRAM THROUGHOUT. CANDACE OR JANICE, ANYTHING RIGHT NOW THAT YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT THE PROGRAM GENERALLY BEFORE WE TALK MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE JUDICIAL EDUCATION COMPONENT? >> I THINK THE ONLY THING -- GO AHEAD, CANDACE. >> GO AHEAD, JANICE. >> I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE PROGRAM, IN ADDITION TO SENDING ME AN EMAIL, YOU CAN GO TO THE OFFICE ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN WEBSITE, AND UNDER FUNDING, YOU CAN GO TO LOOK AT OUR CLOSED SOLICITATIONS, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THE MOST RECENT SOLICITATION LOOKED LIKE. IT'S UNDER THE TRAINING AND SERVICES TO END ABUSE IN LATER LIFE PROGRAM. THE SOLICITATION CHANGES A LITTLE BIT FROM YEAR TO YEAR, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE MOST RECENT ONE, IT WILL GIVE YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHAT'S INVOLVED IN APPLYING FOR FUNDING THROUGH THE PROGRAM. AND WE ANTICIPATE THAT THE NEXT SOLICITATION WILL COME OUT SOMETIME EARLY IN 2024. THANK YOU, JEN. >> I JUST WOULD ADD THAT HAVING WORKED WITH A LOT OF THE GRANT COMMUNITIES, WHAT I HAVE OBSERVED IS WHAT A TRANSFORMATIONAL EXPERIENCE THE GRANT PROGRAM CAN BE FOR COMMUNITIES SEEKING TO INCREASE VICTIM SAFETY AND OFFENDER ACCOUNTABILITY RELATED TO ABUSE IN LATER LIFE AND ELDER ABUSE. AND I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO ANYONE WHO MAY WANT THAT PERSPECTIVE TO CONSIDER WITHIN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH TO YOU BOTH. TODAY, WE ARE GOING TO BE FOCUSING ON ONE COMPONENT OF THE PROGRAM, AND THAT IS THE JUDICIAL TRAINING PROGRAM. SO, THE ENHANCING JUDICIAL SKILLS IN ABUSE IN LATER LIFE CASES PROGRAM STARTED IN 2007. IT IS A PARTNERSHIP OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF JUVENILE AND FAMILY COURT JUDGES AND FUTURES WITHOUT VIOLENCE AND FUNDED THROUGH THE OFFICE ON VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN. AS I SAID, IT DID START IN 2007, AND IT WAS REALLY BUILT OFF OF AN EXISTING MODEL OF JUDICIAL EDUCATION THAT THIS PARTNERSHIP HAS MANAGED SINCE 1998, ACTUALLY, WHICH WAS A JUDICIAL INSTITUTE ON DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. SO, IT STARTED OUT AS A VERY SIMILAR STRUCTURE. THE PROCESS FOR DEVELOPING IT WAS THE SAME, AND THEN AS WE CONVENED WITH EXPERTS IN ABUSE IN LATER LIFE AND COMMUNITY PARTNERS, INTERESTED PARTIES, STAKEHOLDERS, SURVIVORS, AND OTHERS, JUDGES FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY, THE PROGRAM REALLY EVOLVED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE NEEDS OF OUR TOPIC, THE DIFFERENCES, THE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN ABUSE IN LATER LIFE AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, AND JUST THE CONTINUED EVOLUTION OF ASCERTAINING THE NEEDS AND SUPPORTING WHAT JUDGES REALLY NEED TO DO A -- THE BEST JOB THEY CAN DO IN HANDLING THESE CASES. PLEASE FORGIVE ME. MY VOICE IS GOING IN AND OUT AS I'M TALKING. I'M TRYING MY BEST. I'M LOSING IT SLOWLY BUT SURELY, SO BY THE END OF THIS WEBINAR, I PROBABLY WILL ONLY BE SQUEAKING. BUT I THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. IN-PERSON, WE HAVE EDUCATED 352 JUDGES FROM 47 STATES AND 2 TERRITORIES SINCE WE STARTED. OF COURSE, DURING COVID, WE SWITCHED TO AN ALL-VIRTUAL FORMAT, AND SO DURING THAT TIME FRAME, WE WERE ABLE TO REACH 1,205 MULTIDISCIPLINARY PROFESSIONALS, OVER HALF OF WHOM WERE JUDGES, AND WE DO HAVE PLANS AT UPCOMING JUDICIAL INSTITUTE, WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 7th THROUGH THE 10th IN TYSON'S CORNER, VIRGINIA. THAT IS PENDING APPROVAL, SO THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT THAT DATE WILL CHANGE, AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, WE WILL BE SENDING OUT NOTICE OF THAT ON ALL OF THE DIFFERENT MEDIA THAT WE USE TO COMMUNICATE WITH EVERYONE, OR PLEASE ALSO FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME DIRECTLY, AND MY EMAIL IS JWHITE @FUTURESWITHOUTVIOLENCE. ORG, AND I WILL PUT THAT IN THE CHAT IN JUST A MOMENT. BUT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE INSTITUTE ITSELF. IT BEGINS USUALLY HALF A DAY ON SUNDAY AND GOES THROUGH HALF A DAY ON WEDNESDAY. IT IS, AS I SAID, CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. IT IS PROBLEM-SOLVING ORIENTED. IT'S VERY INTERACTIVE. IT IS ROOTED IN THE IDEAS OF ADULT LEARNING, SO IT'S FIRMLY BASED IN PEER LEARNING, ESSENTIALLY WE CONSIDER ALL OF THE JUDGES THAT COME TO THE TABLE, BOTH THE FACULTY JUDGES AND THE JUDGES THAT ARE THERE AS ATTENDEES AS EXPERTS. WE CAN CONNECT TOGETHER, SHARE OUR EXISTING EXPERIENCES AND KNOWLEDGE AND CREATE NEW KNOWLEDGE TOGETHER. AND THAT'S REALLY THE GOAL AND THE PROCESS FOR THOSE PROGRAMS, AND WE HAVE HAD A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL GROUPS OF JUDGES WHO HAVE COME OVER THE YEARS AND ARE REALLY EXCITED NOW THAT WE CAN BE IN-PERSON AGAIN TO GET TOGETHER AND TO BE REALLY ABLE TO STRUGGLE WITH THESE CASES TOGETHER AND THINK UP SOLUTIONS WITH ALL OF OUR WONDERFUL FACULTY AND JUDGES THAT COME. NOW, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO CANDACE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA PROGRAM, WHICH GREW INITIALLY OUT OF MUCH OF THE CURRICULA THAT WAS DEVELOPED FOR THIS NATIONAL PROGRAM AND HAS EVOLVED, AND WE REALLY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH FOLKS WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE AND THE SUCCESSES AND SOME OF THE EXPERIENCES THAT BOTH CANDACE AND JUDGE JUHAS HAVE EXPERIENCED THROUGH THAT VERSION OF THE PROGRAM. >> THANK YOU, JEN. SO, YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR SOME OVERLAP TO WHAT JEN HAS DESCRIBED, AND SOME OF THE DATES VERY MUCH COINCIDE. CALIFORNIA, IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW THIS, HAS A ROBUST TRAINING AND EDUCATION BUREAU WITHIN THE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF STATE GOVERNMENT. AND IT IS CURRENTLY KNOWN AS THE CENTER FOR JUDICIAL EDUCATION AND RESEARCH OR CJER, AND YOU WILL HEAR ME TALK ABOUT CJER AT DIFFERENT POINTS. SO, IN 2008, THE CALIFORNIA EXPERIENCE BEGAN. IT BEGAN BY SENDING A MEMBER OF THE CJER ATTORNEY STAFF AND TWO CALIFORNIA JUDGES TO THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE IN ORDER TO BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THE COURSE AND THE NATIONAL CURRICULUM AND THEN, WITH THE IDEA OF THEM RETURNING TO CALIFORNIA TO HELP DESIGN A CALIFORNIA-BASED COURSE. THE COURSE THAT WAS DEVELOPED WAS FIRST OFFERED IN AUGUST OF 2008 AT WHAT WAS THEN TITLED A CONTINUING JUDICIAL EDUCATION STUDIES PROGRAM. THE COURSE WAS -- THERE WAS A HIATUS, AND THE COURSE WAS THEN OFFERED AGAIN IN 2013, AND SINCE THAT TIME, HAS BEEN OFFERED EVERY OTHER YEAR. THE COURSE, EXCEPT DURING COVID, HAS ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT IN-PERSON. IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT REMOTELY DURING COVID ONCE IN 2021. IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT SEVEN TIMES, AND APPROXIMATELY 130-PLUS JUDGES HAVE ATTENDED. OUR COURSE IS DEPENDING ON WHAT YEAR IT WAS OFFERED, RANGES BETWEEN 2.5 TO 3 FULL DAYS. NOW, THAT IS THE CLOSEST THING THAT WAS MODELED ON THE NATIONAL PROGRAM, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF OTHER PIECES OF THE PROGRAM AND VERSIONS OF THE NATIONAL PROGRAM THAT HAVE BEEN ADAPTED IN CALIFORNIA. SO, SINCE 2008, VARIOUS SEGMENTS HAVE BEEN OFFERED IN A VARIETY OF COURSES, INCLUDING A RURAL JUDGES INSTITUTE, TWICE IN 2012 AND 2014, AT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE INSTITUTE IN 2017, AT THE COLLABORATIVE COURTS PROGRAM IN 2008 AND 2014, AT A DRUG COURTS PROGRAM AND MOST RECENTLY AT THE PROBATE AND MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTE WHERE THREE SIGNIFICANT SIZE SEGMENTS OF OUR STATE-SPECIFIC PROGRAM WERE OFFERED. ADDITIONALLY, AND THIS IS A PIECE THAT JUDGE JUHAS AND I HAVE TAUGHT TOGETHER, EACH YEAR, SINCE 2009, A SEGMENT FROM THE NATIONAL COURSE ON COURT ORDERS RELATED TO OLDER ADULTS HAS BEEN OFFERED AS PART OF OUR ANNUAL PROBATE PRIMARY ASSIGNMENT COURSE. SO, THE TAKEAWAY IS WE STARTED WITH SENDING PEOPLE TO THE NATIONAL PROGRAM TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT, THEN USED THEIR EXPERTISE BOTH FROM THE NATIONAL COURSE AND THEN THEIR EXPERTISE AS COURT OFFICIALS HERE IN CALIFORNIA TO DESIGN OUR PROGRAM. BUT IN ADDITION TO THE SPECIFIC PROGRAM, WE HAVE POPULATED OTHER PROGRAMS WITH DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATEWIDE PROGRAM, AND THAT CONTINUES THROUGH THE PRESENT. >> GREAT, THANK YOU SO MUCH, CANDACE. >> IF YOU WANT ME TO ADDRESS DIFFERENCES IN BENEFITS, I WILL GO ON, BUT I'M GOING TO PAUSE JUST TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING JUDGE JUHAS MAY WANT TO ADD OR THAT YOU MAY WANT TO HIGHLIGHT. >> NO, I THINK, CANDACE, I THINK YOU DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF THE HISTORY, BUT I DO KIND OF WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT NOT ONLY IS THIS A STAND-ALONE PROGRAM, THAT IT'S SEEPED QUITE APPROPRIATELY INTO OTHER TRAININGS SO THAT A JUDGE THAT MAY BE THERE FOR SOME OTHER TRAINING IS GOING TO BE EXPOSED TO IT AND BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT TRAINING AS WELL. CANDACE TALKED ABOUT THE PRIMARY ASSIGNMENT OVERVIEW. IN CALIFORNIA, IN FAMILY AND -- WELL, ACTUALLY, IN ANY JUDICIAL DISCIPLINE, EACH JUDGE THAT'S STARTING IN THAT DISCIPLINE IS OBLIGATED TO GO TO A ONE-WEEK CLASS THAT FOCUSES ON THAT DISCIPLINE. AND SO, EVERY NEW PROBATE JUDGE AND EVERY NEW PROBATE ATTORNEY IN CALIFORNIA GETS EXPOSURE TO THIS AREA AS PART AND PARCEL OF THAT CLASS AS WELL. EVERY NEW JUDGE IS EXPOSED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN CALIFORNIA TO ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. >> SO, YOU HAD ASKED ME TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES, AND PERHAPS SIMILARITIES. MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD TIME FOR US TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE. I HAVE HAD THE HONOR AND PLEASURE TO TEACH AT BOTH THE NATIONAL AND THE STATE PROGRAMS. AND SO I HAVE HAD A RINGSIDE SEAT FOR BEING ABLE TO SEE THE DIFFERENCES AND THE SIMILARITIES. IN TERMS OF TEACHING APPROACH, THE CALIFORNIA MODEL IS VERY MUCH THE SAME AS JEN DESCRIBED EARLIER OF THE NATIONAL MODEL WITH INTERACTIVE ACTIVITIES, OF PEER-TO-PEER LEARNING, SKILL-BASED AND DRAWING ON THE EXPERTISE OF EVERYONE WHO ATTENDS. I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OTHER AREAS WHERE I THINK WE SHARE SIMILARITIES, AND TO ME, THESE ARE SOME OF THE FOUNDATIONAL IDEAS THAT GO INTO HOW HOW CALIFORNIA DEVISED ITS PROGRAM. SOME OF THE SIMILARITIES TO THE NATIONAL PROGRAM INCLUDE FOCUSING ON HOW ABUSE IN LATER LIFE CASES ARE SIMILAR BUT ALSO DIFFERENT FROM OTHER CASES THAT COURTS MAY HANDLE, AND THEN ADDRESSING HOW THESE DIFFERENCES AFFECT JUDICIAL FACT FINDING AND CASE RESOLUTION. AND BY WAY OF EXAMPLES, MANY OF OUR JUDGES COME WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CASES AND THE DYNAMICS THAT ARE OFTEN PRESENT IN THE NATIONAL COURSE AND ALSO IN OUR CALIFORNIA COURSE, WE ALSO FOCUS ON DYNAMICS, BUT EXPANDED IT FAR BEYOND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE FOCUS TO HOW IT'S DIFFERENT. SO, DIFFERENT FORMS IT MAY TAKE, TACTICS THAT MAY BE USED BY ABUSERS AND THEIR IMPACT ON AN OLDER ADULT. BOTH OF OUR PROGRAMS EMPHASIZE THE IMPACT OF NORMAL AGEING AND HOW IT MAY AFFECT ACCESS TO COURTS, THE NEED FOR ACCOMMODATIONS, AND COURT RESPONSES. BOTH COURSES, ALTHOUGH CALIFORNIA DOES IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, TALK ABOUT ABNORMAL AGING AND THE IMPACT OF DISEASES OFTEN EXPERIENCED IN LATER LIFE, INCLUDING DEMENTIA, AND HOW AN UNDERSTANDING OF DEMENTIA IS GOING TO GUIDE HOW THE COURT RESPONDS, EVALUATES CREDIBILITY, AND FIGURES OUT THE NEED AND THE APPROPRIATE KIND OF INTERVENTION. BOTH OF OUR PROGRAMS ADDRESS AGEISM AND ITS IMPACT ON THE JUDICIAL PROCESS, AND BOTH OF OUR PROGRAMS, ALTHOUGH NOT DONE THE SAME WAY, ADDRESS THE ROLE OF CULTURAL TRADITIONS ON OLDER ADULTS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED ABUSE. BOTH OF OUR PROGRAMS ALSO ADDRESS INTERVENTIONS, AND ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE WE TALK THE MOST IS IN THE AREA OF GUARDIANSHIP OR, AS CALIFORNIA CALLS IT, CONSERVATORSHIP, AND LESS RESTRICTIVE ALTERNATIVES THAT MAY AMELIORATE THE NEED FOR A PLENARY GUARDIANSHIP OR CONSERVATORSHIP. BUT SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES IS CALIFORNIA HAS DONE A DEEPER DIVE ON THE MEDICAL ASPECTS OF AGING, SO THERE IS ALWAYS A MEDICAL DOCTOR WITH EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH OLDER ADULTS WHO CAN DESCRIBE THE AGING BODY AND THE AGING BRAIN, BOTH NORMAL AND ABNORMAL AGING, AND HOW THAT MAY PLAY OUT IN THE COURT SETTING. WE ALSO, IN CALIFORNIA, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO A DEEPER DIVE AROUND WHAT ARE SOME OF THE UNIQUE ISSUES OR CONSIDERATIONS THAT MAY PLAY OUT IN CALIFORNIA? SO, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO UPDATE IMPORTANT CHANGES BROUGHT ABOUT BY CASE LAW AND LEGISLATIVE CHANGES, INCLUDING, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE AREA OF COURT ORDERS. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DRAW ON AND EXPAND THE EXPERTISE OF LOCAL JUDGES THROUGHOUT THE STATE. WE HAVE APPROACHED THE ISSUES OF CULTURE AND DIVERSITY THROUGH A CALIFORNIA LENS OF SOME OF THE MORE FREQUENT INTERACTIONS COURTS MAY HAVE WITH DIFFERENT POPULATIONS. WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ADDRESS, HOW DO YOU PROTECT VICTIMS AS OUR BAIL LAWS HAVE CHANGED? HOW DO WE DEAL WITH OLDER PERPETRATORS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM? AND ESPECIALLY OLDER PERPETRATORS WHO MAY BE DEALING WITH DEMENTIA AND THE ROLE DEMENTIA MAY PLAY IN THEIR CONDUCT. AND WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HIGHLIGHT PROMISING CALIFORNIA PRACTICES AND HAVE BROUGHT IN JUDGES WHO HAVE BEEN PART OF INITIATING AND LIVING WITH THOSE CHANGES TO TALK ABOUT HOW THEY BROUGHT THOSE CHANGES ABOUT AND WHAT HAS GONE WELL AND WHAT HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE PROBLEM AREAS, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE HAD JUDGES COME IN TO TALK ABOUT THE ELDER PROTECTION COURT THAT STARTED IN ALAMEDA COUNTY, MOVED TO CONTRA COSTA COUNTY, TWO BAY AREA COUNTIES. WE HAVE HAD A JUDGE FROM VENTURA COUNTY TALK ABOUT DEVELOPING AN ELDER ABUSE RESTRAINING ORDER SPECIAL CALENDAR AND THE LIKE. AND THOSE HAVE BEEN REALLY EFFECTIVE, BECAUSE THEY HAVE INVOLVED CALIFORNIA JUDGES, SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE TRIED. THIS IS WHY WE TRIED IT. HERE'S HOW IT'S WORKED OUT. AND THEN FINALLY, THANKS TO THE GRANT AND THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT, CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN ABLE TO USE SET-ASIDE JUDICIAL FUNDS TO DEVELOP A BENCH GUIDE FOR ABUSE IN LATER LIFE FOR JUDGES. IT WAS FIRST DEVELOPED IN ABOUT 2015 AND 2016. IT IS NOW GOING TRUEHROUGH A COMPLETE REVISION WITH HOPES THAT IT WILL BE RELEASED IN THE -- AT THE END OF THIS YEAR OR EARLY NEXT YEAR. >> THE CALIFORNIA SPECIFIC ALSO GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT CALIFORNIA-SPECIFIC RESOURCES, WHAT APS CAN OR CANNOT DO UNDER CALIFORNIA REGULATIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO, WHILE THE CURRICULUM IS SKILLS-BASED, BECAUSE IT'S GROUNDED IN CALIFORNIA, IT ALLOWS SOMETIMES A DISCUSSION ABOUT, WELL, WE CAN DO THIS UNDER THE CODE, WE CAN'T DO THAT UNDER THE CODE SORT OF THING. OR APS CAN DO THIS, CAN'T DO THAT. SO, IT GIVES A MORE SPECIFIC FRAMEWORK FOR SOME OF THE SKILLS. BUT THAT WOULD BE MY TWO CENTS. >> WONDERFUL. AND I JUST WANTED TO NOTE AS WELL THAT OUR JUDICIAL INSTITUTE THAT WE DO NATIONALLY RELATING TO WHAT JUDGE JUHAS JUST SAID, IS SKILL-BASED. WE DON'T USE ANY SPECIFIC STATE LAW SINCE WE HAVE JUDGES AND JUDICIAL OFFICERS PRESENT FROM, COULD BE, EVERY STATE, RIGHT? SO, WE OFTEN USE MODEL CODES OR WE USE A LAW, AND WE CAN CHANGE IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS JUST TO HAVE A SORT OF BASELINE FOR JUDGES TO USE AS THEY NEGOTIATE CASES THAT WE'RE OFFERING FOR PURPOSES OF EDUCATION. BUT WE HAVE DONE, IN ADDITION TO THE WORK WITH CALIFORNIA, WE HAVE WORKED WITH OTHER STATES WHO HAVE ASKED FOR US TO COME TO THE STATE AND DO STATE-SPECIFIC REPLICATIONS OF THE JUDICIAL PROGRAM, SO I KNOW -- I'M TRYING TO THINK OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THE ONES THAT WE HAVE DONE, BUT I KNOW OHIO, FOR INSTANCE, FLORIDA. I WANT TO SAY MICHIGAN. A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT STATES WE'VE ADAPTED THE CURRICULA TO BE MORE STATE-SPECIFIC IN THE PAST. AND CAN ALSO PROVIDE SUPPORT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IF COURTS ARE GOING TO BE WANTING TO DO SESSIONS OR WANTING TO ADAPT EXISTING MATERIALS TO WORK WITH THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE'S MATERIALS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WORK WITH FOLKS AND PROVIDE TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FOR DOING THAT. >> SO, WONDERFUL. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TODAY FOR THE REST OF OUR TIME IS REALLY TALK ABOUT THE PROGRAMS BUT ALSO JUST THE EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH JUDGES AND COURT OFFICERS AROUND THIS TOPIC AND WHAT CANDACE AND JUDGE JUHAS'S EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN TO SHARE WITH ALL OF YOU, REALLY, WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES FACING THE JUDICIAL COMMUNITY WITH RESPECT TO CASES OF ABUSE IN LATER LIFE, WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS, AND WHERE DO WE THINK WE'RE GOING IN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS? SO, LET'S JUST START OUT BY DOING A LITTLE BIT OF DEFINITION TALK, SO TO SPEAK. AND CANDACE, I JUST WANTED TO PUT THIS TO YOU. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT -- WE KEEP SAYING ABUSE IN LATER LIFE, RIGHT? AND SOMETIMES, WE SAY ELDER ABUSE, AND WE USE IT SOMETIMES INTERCHANGEABLY AND SOMETIMES NOT. WHEN WE SAY, ABUSE IN LATER LIFE IN THIS PROGRAM, WHAT DO WE MEAN? >> AND PERHAPS -- I THINK THERE MAY BE A SLIDE, THANK YOU, THAT WILL ACCOMPANY WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY. SO, AS EVERYONE NOW KNOWS, THIS COURSE IS FUNDED -- THE NATIONAL COURSE AND INDIRECTLY THE CALIFORNIA COURSE DRAW FUNDING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, AND EITHER THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT OR ABUSE IN LATER LIFE GRANTS PROGRAM THAT JANICE HAS GUIDED FOR SO LONG. AND THAT PROGRAM AND -- HAS PROVIDED A DEFINITION WHICH IS GOING TO CAUSE SOME OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT TO PERHAPS GULP AND GASP, BUT I'LL GET YOU THROUGH IT. FIRST OF ALL, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT VARIOUS FORMS OF CONDUCT ARE INCLUDED. THERE IS A PARTICULAR AGE, A MINIMUM AGE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND THEN THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP. SO, ABUSE IN LATER LIFE REFERS TO WILLFUL PHYSICAL ABUSE, SEXUAL ABUSE, NEGLECT, ABANDONMENT, OR FINANCIAL EXPLOITATION. SO, IT'S FORMS OF ABUSE COMMITTED BY SOMEONE ON A PERSON WHO IS HARMED. THE PERSON WHO IS HARMED IS AT LEAST 50 YEARS OF AGE, AND I'LL COME BACK TO AGE IN A MOMENT, AND THE PERSON CAUSING THE HARM IS IN AN ONGOING RELATIONSHIP IN WHICH THERE'S A SOCIETAL EXPECTATION OF TRUST. SO, WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPOUSES, FAMILY MEMBERS, OTHER INTIMATE PARTNERS, CAREGIVERS AND FIDUCIARIES, AND WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT ALL FORMS OF SEXUAL ABUSE, NO MATTER WHETHER THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP OR NOT. I'M GOING TO GO BACK NOW TO AGE 50, AND TALK ABOUT WHY AGE 50 WAS SELECTED TO DESCRIBE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. WHEN THE GRANT PROGRAM WAS PUT TOGETHER, THERE WAS A STUDY MADE OF WHO'S ABLE TO ACCESS SERVICES, AND WHERE ARE THE GAPS IN SERVICE? SO, YOUNGER VICTIMS, PARTICULARLY DOMESTIC VIOLENCE VICTIMS, WERE WELL SERVED BY DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PROGRAMS AND OTHER COMMUNITY RESOURCES AROUND THE COUNTRY. BUT WHEN WE LOOKED AT THOSE PROGRAMS, THEY WERE MOSTLY SERVING PEOPLE WHO WERE YOUNGER THAN, SAY, AGE 45, AND CERTAINLY YOUNGER THAN AGE 50. WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, WHICH WAS OLDER ADULTS, AND WE LOOKED AT ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, WE LOOKED AT OLDER AMERICANS ACT AND OTHER LEGISLATION, THE PEOPLE WHO WERE RECEIVING SERVICES WERE TYPICALLY 60 YEARS OF AGE AND OLDER. AND THERE WAS THIS GAP WHERE PEOPLE WERE BEING HARMED AND WERE BEING VICTIMIZED BUT FOR WHICH THERE WAS NO EMPHASIS ON DEVELOPING VICTIM SERVICES TO SERVE THEM. AND SO, AGE 50 WAS SELECTED FOR THIS GRANT, REALLY FOCUSING ON WHO IS NOT BEING SERVED BY CURRENT SERVICES. SO, WHAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO NOTICE IS THIS DEFINITION REALLY DISTINGUISHES SPECIFIC KINDS OF ACTS IN PARTICULAR RELATIONSHIPS, NO MATTER THE SETTING, WHETHER IT IS IN A FACILITY-BASED SETTING OR IN A COMMUNITY-BASED SETTING, BUT WHICH INVOLVES THIS UNIQUE TRUST RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN VICTIM AND PERPETRATOR, AND IT DISTINGUISHES THOSE THINGS FROM VARIOUS OTHER BAD ACTS THAT ARE COMMITTED AGAINST OLDER ADULTS, SUCH AS STRANGER MUGGINGS, MANY SCAMS, AND OF COURSE A FORM OF ABUSE THAT PROBATE COURTS OFTEN HAVE TO DEAL WITH, AND ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES SEE IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS, SELF-NEGLECT, IN WHICH AN OLDER ADULT IS NOT PROVIDING FOR THEIR OWN BASIC NEEDS. AND IT DRAWS ATTENTION TO THE NEXUS BETWEEN ELDER ABUSE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, SEXUAL ASSAULT, AND STALKING. AND SO, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, CANDACE. AND I JUST WANTED TO PICK OUT ONE PIECE OF THAT, AND -- BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT OFTEN COMES UP WITH JUDGES IN OUR JUDICIAL INSTITUTE, AND IT'S AROUND THIS QUESTION OF -- THERE'S SORT OF A PRECONCEIVED NOTION THAT SOMEONE WHO IS 50 AND OLDER, THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING TO THEM OR ELSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO THEM FOR 30 YEARS, AND WHY ARE THEY GOING TO COME FORWARD TODAY? IF IT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR 30 YEARS. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT JUDGES WILL OFTEN SAY. AND SO, WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT, YES, OFTENTIMES, IT IS ABUSE GROWN OLD, SO TO SPEAK, ABUSE THAT HAS BEEN OCCURRING IN A RELATIONSHIP FOR MAYBE DECADES. BUT THERE'S OTHER SITUATIONS TOO, AND I WONDER IF YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE OTHER KINDS THAT WE OFTEN SEE IN TERMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WITH FOLKS THAT ARE 50 AND OLDER. >> SO, JUDGE, DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE SORTS OF SITUATIONS THAT YOU SEE IN YOUR COURT? >> YEAH. AS JEN SAID, I THINK THAT OFTENTIMES, AN OLDER PERSON IS GOING TO END UP WITH A CONTINUATION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE THAT OCCURRED AS A YOUNGER PERSON, AND -- BUT I THINK AS PEOPLE GET OLDER, THEY HAVE OTHER KINDS OF FINANCIAL ABUSE. THERE'S CARETAKER ABUSE. THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT ARISE THAT AREN'T GOING TO BE NECESSARILY PRESENT AS A YOUNGER PERSON, AND SO I'M NOT SURE, JEN, THAT'S REALLY ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION, THOUGH. >> WELL, I THINK, YES, IT DOES IN PART, AND THEN -- I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE OFTEN SEE, AND I THINK IT'S AN AGEIST ASSUMPTION IN A LOT OF WAYS, BUT NOT ONLY IS IT CASES WHERE PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP FOR MANY, MANY YEARS, BUT OLDER PEOPLE CAN AND DO BEGIN NEW RELATIONSHIPS, RIGHT? >> SURE. >> LATER IN LIFE. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO SITUATIONS WHERE, AS COUPLES ARE TOGETHER FOR A LENGTH OF TIME, WHERE THERE'S CERTAIN MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT CAN ARISE WITH ONE OR MORE OF THE INDIVIDUALS. I'M THINKING RIGHT NOW ABOUT THE PERSON WHO'S USING VIOLENCE, THAT SOMETIMES THERE IS, LIKE, ORGANIC MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT ARISE, AND SO THERE MIGHT BE LATER ONSET VIOLENCE THAT OCCURS, RIGHT? BUT THERE'S A SPECTRUM THAT WE'RE SEEING. IT'S -- IT CAN BE ABUSE GROWN OLD. IT CAN BE NEW RELATIONSHIPS. IT CAN BE RELATED TO SOME KIND OF MEDICAL CONDITION THAT OCCURS LATER IN LIFE, RIGHT? AND THERE'S SOME SORT OF COINCIDING VIOLENCE THAT BEGINS LATER. BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING JUST ACROSS THE BOARD IS THIS FAILURE OF, REALLY, SYSTEMS AND PROGRAMS TO BE ABLE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THESE FOLKS IN A WAY THAT THEY'RE FEELING COMFORTABLE TO COME FORWARD AS MUCH AS, MAYBE, FOLKS DO WHEN THEY'RE YOUNGER. >> SO, AS PEOPLE AGE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU -- THERE MAY BE SOME CARE GIVING THAT WAS NOT PART OF A RELATIONSHIP EARLY ON THAT CREATES ALL KINDS OF STRESSORS. THERE'S A COMMENT IN THE CHAT, WHICH I THINK IS SPOT ON, THAT SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE THINKS ABOUT BY WAY OF RETIREMENT, YOU KNOW, MAY NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY. SO, THERE'S FINANCIAL STRESSORS THAT OCCUR, AND OTHER NEW THINGS THAT ARISE AS PEOPLE GET OLDER THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY GOING TO BE SOMETHING THEY'RE FACING AS A YOUNGER PERSON, WHICH I THINK DOES PUT PRESSURE IN RELATIONSHIPS IN WAYS THAT MAYBE YOUNGER PEOPLE AREN'T SEEING, AND THEN I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS PEOPLE ALSO END UP, THEY CARE GIVE FOR CHILDREN, FOR GRANDCHILDREN. THEY HAVE THEIR KIDS MAYBE ARE NOT ON THE RIGHT PATH, AND SO IT CREATES STRESSORS FOR OLDER FOLKS THAT MAY FIND THEMSELVES DEALING WITH AN OLDER CHILD THAT'S LIVING WITH THEM, THAT SORT OF THING. I THINK THERE'S ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT CHANGE AS YOU GET OLDER THAT RELATE TO FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS THAT WERE -- THAT ARE CHANGED IN A RADICAL WAY, AND THEN AS -- JEN, AS YOU SAID, NEW PEOPLE GET -- PEOPLE GET INVOLVED. OLDER FOLKS -- I'LL GET IT IN A MINUTE -- OLDER FOLKS GET INVOLVED IN NEW RELATIONSHIPS. THEY END RELATIONSHIPS. THEY START RELATIONSHIPS. AND SO, I THINK ALL OF THE -- ALL OF THOSE ISSUES ALSO COME UP IN OLDER FOLKS. >> I WOULD ADD, AS WELL, AND I THINK WE SAW A GREAT DEAL OF THIS HIGHLIGHTED DURING COVID, IS ECONOMIC STRAINS BROUGHT FAMILIES BACK UNDER ONE ROOF WHO MAY HAVE BEEN LIVING APART. >> RIGHT. >> I THINK IT -- WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS AN INCREASE IN THE REPORTS OF BOTH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND ELDER ABUSE, ESPECIALLY IN THE EARLIER PART OF COVID. WE'RE SEEING THAT SITUATIONS WHERE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE ONLY BECAME WORSE WHEN PEOPLE WERE PUSHED BACK INTO THE HOME WHERE THOSE STRESSORS EXISTED. WHAT I SAW AS A PROSECUTOR, AND I STILL SEE COURTS TALKING ABOUT -- JUDGES TALKING ABOUT -- ARE ALSO THE KIDS WHO NEVER LEFT HOME WHO JUST NEVER THRIVED, NEVER BECAME INDEPENDENT, OR WERE OUT OF THE HOUSE BUT NOW, BECAUSE OF UNDERLYING MEDICAL PROBLEMS, MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS, SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS, ARE RETURNING HOME, OFTEN WITH THE EXPECTATION THEY'RE GOING TO HELP OUT, AND IN FACT, BECOMING A NEW PROBLEM FOR THE OLDER ADULT, WHETHER THAT IS THAT THEY ARE FINANCIALLY EXPLOITING OR PHYSICALLY ABUSING, CERTAINLY EMOTIONALLY ABUSING. OCCASIONALLY, THERE'S ALSO SEXUAL ABUSE. SO, THESE DIFFERENT REALITIES ARE WHAT COURTS, I THINK, ARE SEEING OR WILL BE SEEING IN INCREASING NUMBERS MOVING FORWARD AS WE KNOW THE SIZE OF THE AGING POPULATION IS NOT SHRINKING. IT'S CONTINUING TO GROW TO NUMBERS WE'VE NEVER HAD BEFORE, AND THAT'S LIKELY TO CONTINUE FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 25 TO 30 YEARS. THE OTHER, AND THE LAST THING I WANT TO SAY IS, I THINK COURTS ARE GETTING BROUGHT INTO CASES MORE BECAUSE THERE'S GREATER UNDERSTANDING OF THE IMPACT THAT ALL FORMS OF ABUSE HAVE ON OLDER ADULTS, WHICH IS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPTIONS THAT IF THEY HAD SUFFERED A SIMILAR VICTIMIZATION YOUNGER IN LIFE, THEY COULD HAVE RECOVERED FROM. BUT WE KNOW THAT EVERY FORM OF ELDER ABUSE RESULTS IN PREMATURE DEATH AND THAT THERE ARE PROFOUND EMOTIONAL HEALTH, MENTAL HEALTH, AND OTHER RELATED PROBLEMS THAT ACCOMPANY EVEN, IF I CAN USE THE TERM, LESS SERIOUS OR MINOR INCIDENTS OF ELDER ABUSE AND ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. >> ALONG THOSE LINES, COURTS ARE BEING ASKED TO DO MORE TOO. PEOPLE ARE MORE FREQUENTLY COMING INTO COURT. BECAUSE THERE ARE GAPS IN SERVICES, I THINK PEOPLE COME TO COURT LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS THAT A COURT MAY OR MAY NOT, FRANKLY, BE ABLE TO OFFER. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF MY SORT OF FEELINGS THAT I WAS GOING TO MENTION LATER, BUT I'LL MENTION IT NOW, I THINK THAT ABUSE IN LATER LIFE IS WHERE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WAS 20, 25 YEARS AGO. I THINK THAT THE RESOURCES ARE STARTING TO CATCH UP. THE IMPORTANCE, THE THOUGHT, THE UNDERSTANDING OF, YOU KNOW, WHO BEARS AN OBLIGATION AS A MANDATED REPORTER, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE CHANGING AS COURTS AND LEGISLATURES GET MORE INVOLVED IN SORT OF ABUSE IN LATER LIFE CONCEPTS. CANDACE WENT THROUGH THE HISTORY. 2008 WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO. AND SO, I THINK WE'RE NOW -- AT LEAST I WILL SPEAK WITH LIMITED AUTHORITY BUT SOME AUTHORITY -- THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE IS STARTING TO PAY, I THINK, A LOT MORE ATTENTION TO THINGS LIKE ISOLATION AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT THEY HADN'T IN THE PAST. SO, PEOPLE ARE COMING TO COURT MORE. I THINK THERE'S MORE OF A FEELING OF, I'M GOING TO GO TO COURT AND GET THIS FIGURED OUT AS OPPOSED TO HANDLING IT INSIDE THE FAMILY, AND ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. ALL OF WHICH MAKE IT MUCH BROADER AND MUCH MORE COMMON, I THINK, TO SEE THESE THINGS IN COURT. >> SO MANY THINGS THAT YOU BOTH SAID IN THE LAST COUPLE MINUTES RAISED SO MANY QUESTIONS FOR ME AND ALSO JUST POINTS THAT WE TALK ABOUT FREQUENTLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. AND I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THIS PIECE AROUND BEING -- THE PROGRAM BEING FOCUSED ON 50 AND UP FOR A MINUTE. IT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT, I THINK, BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT 50 AND UP, THAT'S -- AGE OF A LOT OF STATE SPECIFIC VIRTUAL TRAININGS WERE HOW FREQUENTLY THE CASES WERE COMING UP WITH THE USERS OF VIOLENCE BEING GRANDCHILDREN THAT THE OLDER ADULT HAD BEEN BROUGHT IN TO CARE FOR, THE GRANDCHILDREN, FOR WHATEVER OTHER PROBLEMS WERE HAPPENING IN THE FAMILY. AND SO, THE CASES WOULD COME UP IN JUVENILE COURT. THEY WOULD COME UP IN CIVIL COURT. THEY WERE COMING UP IN HOUSING COURT. SO, THE CASES WERE EVERYWHERE. YOU COULDN'T EVEN JUST PINPOINT, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TRAIN THIS BENCH, RIGHT, OF JUDGES BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE JUDGES ARE GOING TO SEE ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. THAT'S NOT THE CASE WITH ELDER ABUSE. SO, THAT ALL JUST TO SAY, 50 AND UP IS AN INTERESTING AGE AND IT REALLY IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I THINK IT REFLECTS THE REALITY OF WHAT'S GOING ON FOR REAL PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING VIOLENCE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT THE AGE PIECE AND WHAT IT HAS MEANT FOR THIS WORK? TO BOTH OF YOU. >> WELL, NOT EXACTLY THE AGE PIECE, BUT A COURTHOUSE HAS MANY, MANY DOORS AND THERE'S BEEN AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE IN THE MEDICAL LEGAL AREA, IF YOU WILL, AND PEOPLE THAT COME INTO THE HOSPITAL WITH A HEALTH PROBLEM, WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DIG INTO IT, FIND OUT WHAT THEY'VE REALLY GOT IS A LEGAL PROBLEM THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND AROUND A HOUSING ISSUE AND ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. SO, I THINK THERE'S BEEN ALSO A TON OF WORK THAT MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEGAL PROBLEMS DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE LEGAL PROBLEMS AND DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADDRESS THEM AND ALL OF THAT. AS THAT KIND OF WORK IS BEING DONE AND PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE -- THE IDEA, THE KNOWLEDGE GAP, THE JUSTICE GAP, ALL THE VARIOUS GAPS THAT ARE OUT THERE, ARE STARTING TO BE BRIDGED. I THINK EVEN MORE, YOU TALK ABOUT THE SANDWICH GENERATION. I'LL SPEAK OF MY OWN FAMILY. MY WIFE IS CURRENTLY EXACTLY IN THAT SITUATION. TAKING CARE OF A CHILD AT HOME, AND THEN ALSO DEALING WITH AN ELDERLY PARENT, AND SO YOU END UP -- AND I KNOW THERE ARE MANY OTHER PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO THAT ARE EXACTLY IN THAT PLACE. WE DON'T -- AS WE THINK ABOUT THESE AREAS MORE BROADLY, I THINK WE SEE HOW THEY ALL INTERRELATE. AND IF YOU CAN'T GET THAT CROSS DISCIPLINE, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE DO IN CALIFORNIA, AND I KNOW THAT YOU DO NATIONALLY AS WELL, THERE'S CRIMINAL JUDGES, PROBATE JUDGES, FAMILY JUDGES, CIVIL JUDGES, OTHER JUDGES THAT WE VERY OFTEN SILO AND -- I DON'T HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WHAT SOMEBODY ACROSS THE HALL IS DOING, LET ALONE ACROSS THE STREET IN THE CRIMINAL COURTS BUILDING. IT'S IMPORTANT WE KNOW ALL OF THOSE THINGS SO I KNOW HOW MY ORDER IS GOING TO INFORM THEIR RESULT AND HOW THEIR RESULT IS GOING TO INFORM WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IN A FAMILY SITUATION. I THINK WE ARE LEARNING A LOT MORE, AND IT'S EXPANDING AS WE SPEAK. >> YES. CANDACE? >> THIS ISN'T DIRECTLY RELATABLE TO JUDGES, BUT THE POINT YOU MAKE ABOUT, WE HAVE TO THINK BROADLY ABOUT WHO -- WHAT ARE THE LIFE CIRCUMSTANCES OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE COMING BEFORE US AND IN PARTICULAR YOUR SANDWICH GENERATION, OR WHERE GRANDPARENTS ARE RAISING GRANDKIDS, BUT A MOMENT BACK TO ME. SOME YEARS AGO, I WAS ASKED TO TRAIN JUVENILE PROBATION OFFICERS ABOUT ELDER ABUSE, AND THERE HAD BEEN NO TRAINING UP TO THAT POINT IN THAT PARTICULAR COMMUNITY, AND EARLY ON, I ASKED THE GROUP, WHY DID YOU COME TO A TRAINING? WHY DO YOU THINK YOU SHOULD BE IN A TRAINING ABOUT ELDER ABUSE? AND QUITE A NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE SAID, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHY WE'RE HERE. WE WERE TOLD WE HAD TO BE HERE, SO WE'RE HERE. BUT WE DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO TEACH US ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO HELP US DO OUR JOB. AND WE WENT THROUGH THE TRAINING, AND BY THE, WELL, AN HOUR LATER, AND THEN SEVERAL HOURS LATER, EVERY ONE OF THOSE PROBATION OFFICERS WAS STOPPING ME AND SAYING, I HAVE THIS CASE. YOU TALKED ABOUT, I'VE GOT THAT EXACT SAME SITUATION, AND I NEVER PUT IT TOGETHER THE WAY I NOW SEE IT. AND SO, THINKING ABOUT JUDICIAL EDUCATION AND THE ARMS OF THE PLACES WHERE THE COURT ARMS MAY REACH, SUCH AS PROBATION DEPARTMENTS, AND INCLUDING THEM IN TALKING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT BECAUSE WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT, THEY ARE HANDLING THESE MATTERS, AND THEY'RE, IN SOME CASES, A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE CAN TAKE THEM TO THE WRONG RESULT. AND THEY MAY OVERLOOK THINGS THAT PLACE PEOPLE AT GREATER RISK OF HARM OR THAT FAIL TO INTERCEDE WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE ACCOUNTABILITY AND REHABILITATION TO THE PERSONS WHO WERE CAUSING HARM. >> SO, I DON'T WANT TO REALLY SORT OF READ AHEAD, BUT CANDACE MAKES, I THINK, AN EXCELLENT POINT THAT PART OF THE JUDGE'S AND JUDICIAL EDUCATION'S RESPONSIBILITY IS TO EDUCATE THE JUDGES WHAT RESOURCES ARE THERE BUT ALSO EDUCATE JUDICIAL OFFICERS WHAT RESOURCES ARE NOT THERE. AND HAVING, THEN, THE JUDGES BECOME LEADERS IN THE COMMUNITY TO ANSWER AND FILL THE GAPS OF THE RESOURCES THAT AREN'T THERE. YOU KNOW, REACHING OUT TO DOCTORS AND REACHING OUT TO HOSPITALS AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND GETTING OUT IN THE COMMUNITY AND DOING SOME EDUCATION TO NON-LEGALLY TRAINED INDIVIDUALS, WHICH I THINK REALLY, REALLY BECOMES IMPORTANT AND BECAUSE WE'RE ON THE FRONT LINES, IF YOU WILL, AND SEE THE RUBBER HITTING THE ROAD, WE HAVE A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE THAT A DOCTOR MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE OR A FINANCIAL INSTITUTION MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE, THAT SORT OF THING. THERE'S A REASON WHY YOU DO THINGS AND EXPLAINING TO PEOPLE WHY WE NEED THAT INFORMATION, WHY IT NEEDS TO BE DONE THIS WAY, CAN BE REMARKABLY HELPFUL AND THEN PROTECTIVE AND HOLDING THE PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE, AS CANDACE MADE A COMMENT EARLIER. >> YEAH, JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP, YOU MENTIONED, JUDGE JUHAS, JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP IN THAT ROLE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE FOCUS ON A GREAT DEAL AND YOU DO IN CALIFORNIA AS WELL. AND WHY? WE FOCUS ON IT BECAUSE WHEN JUDGES CALL PEOPLE TO THE TABLE, THEY COME, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY A BIG PART OF IT. AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SPEND A WHOLE SECTION OF OUR COURSE TALKING ABOUT JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT JUDGES CAN AND CANNOT DO AROUND A GIVEN TOPIC. AND I WONDER IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO SHARE IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD FROM JUDGES OR BEEN ABLE TO DO YOURSELF THAT WAS REALLY A JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP MATTER, YOU KNOW, WITH RESPECT TO OLDER ADULTS >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT YOU MAKE THE POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, JUDGES HAVE A REMARKABLY POWERFUL -- THEIR SUPERPOWER, IF YOU WILL, IS THE ABILITY TO CONVENE AND GET EVERYBODY IN ONE ROOM AT ONE TIME TO IDENTIFY AND GET PEOPLE TO TALK. I THINK THE OTHER THING -- AGAIN, I CAN SPEAK ONLY TO CALIFORNIA. I ASSUME BUT DON'T KNOW THAT OTHER STATES ARE HAVING THESE ISSUES AS WELL. INCREASINGLY, OUR LEGISLATURE IS NOT POPULATED BY ATTORNEYS. AND SO, HAVING JUDGES BECOME ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN LEGISLATION AND COMMENTING ON LEGISLATION AND, YOU KNOW, DOING THE THINGS THAT ETHICALLY WE CAN DO TO MAKE SURE THE LEGISLATURE UNDERSTANDS HOW THIS WORKS, HOW THIS DOESN'T WORK, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND ALSO WITHIN THE BRANCH OF, YOU KNOW, OF LEADING HOW YOU DO YOUR CALENDARS. AS CANDACE TALKED EARLIER ABOUT SETTING UP SPECIAL CALENDARS, THINKING ABOUT, HOW CAN WE BEST SERVE LITIGANTS OF AN OLDER POPULATION? HOW CAN WE DO THOSE THINGS? SO, NOT ONLY LEADING, IF YOU WILL, AT HOME IN OUR OWN COURTS, AND THEN AS I TALKED ABOUT, BREAKING DOWN THE SILOS. HERE IN L.A., WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST JUDICIAL EDUCATION WHERE WE'VE GOT 650 JUDGES, SO WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDUCATION. BUT YOU KNOW, GETTING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR JUDGES TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS IS WHAT WE DO, THIS IS WHAT YOU DO, THIS IS HOW IT ALL IMPACTS US AS YOU TALKED EARLIER. I THINK ALL OF THOSE THINGS FALL WITHIN JUDICIAL EDUCATION. HOW CAN I LEAD IN MY OWN COURT? HOW CAN I LEAD IN MY OWN COURTHOUSE? HOW CAN I LEAD IN MY OWN COURT COUNTY, IF YOU WILL? AND THEN WITHIN THE BRANCH AND THEN REACHING OUT TO THE GREATER COMMUNITY AND REACHING OUT TO VARIOUS PARTS OF THOSE COMMUNITIES TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE COURT DOES, HOW IT DOES IT, WHY IT CAN DO THINGS, WHY IT CAN'T DO THINGS. I THINK IT BECOMES REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT. >> AND CANDACE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO SHARE ANYTHING. YOU SPEAK TO A LOT OF JUDGES THAT YOU HAVE HEARD AROUND JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE WITH RESPECT TO OLDER ADULTS OVER THE YEARS. >> FIRST, I JUST WANT TO REPEAT THIS POWER OF COURTS TO CONVENE. THE SUPERPOWER, AS IT WAS JUST REFERENCED, I THINK BACK TO THE JUDGE WHO STARTED THE FIRST ELDER PROTECTION COURT IN CALIFORNIA, AND FROM THE BEGINNING, SHE KNEW THAT SHE NEEDED THE COOPERATION OF MANY DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY, MANY DIFFERENT AGENCIES, MANY DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, SOME IN GOVERNMENT, MANY WERE NONPROFITS, AND FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS SERVING SPECIFIC PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY, AND SHE NEEDED TO GET THEM ALL ON BOARD TO CREATE THIS ELDER PROTECTION COURT IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE MEANINGFUL. AND I WILL NEVER FORGET, SHE SAID, I STRUGGLED WITH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET EVERYONE THERE, AND I REMEMBERED, IF A JUDGE WRITES A LETTER, PEOPLE WILL READ IT AND THEN THEY'LL SHOW UP. AND THEN HER SUPERPOWER WAS CHICKEN SALAD, SO SHE FED EVERYONE BECAUSE SHE HAD HER MEETINGS AT LUNCHTIME, AND SHE WAS QUITE FAMOUS FOR HER CHICKEN SALAD OR IS VERY FAMOUS FOR IT, AND THE COMBINATION OF HER JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP AND HER CHICKEN SALAD, HER SECRET POWER, REALLY BROUGHT A COMPLETE CHANGE TO HOW THAT COURT WAS ABLE TO FUNCTION WHEN IT CAME TO OLDER ADULTS. I'VE TALKED TO OTHER JUDGES WHO HAVE USED THEIR OWN AUTHORITY AND THEIR OWN PRESTIGE TO LOBBY THEIR OWN SENIOR COURT STAFF, PRESIDING JUDGES AND THE LIKE TO CREATE SPECIAL CALENDARS. I'M THINKING OF A JUDGE OUTSIDE OF CALIFORNIA WHO WORKED FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND FINALLY WAS ABLE TO CONVINCE THE COURT, HEY, WE CAN DO THIS BETTER. LET'S PUT A LOT OF THESE MATTERS TOGETHER AND PUT THEM UNDER AN UMBRELLA, AND I WILL CHAMPION THE COURT, AND I WILL RUN THAT COURT AND MADE THE POINT THAT THIS ACTUALLY WOULD FREE UP JUDICIAL TIME IN OTHER DEPARTMENTS, WHICH BECAME A VERY POWERFUL ARGUMENT THAT PUSHES HER RECOMMENDATIONS AND HER WILLINGNESS TO LEAD TO A POINT WHERE SHE SAW IT HAPPEN. SO, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER EXAMPLE. I'VE ALSO HAD JUDGES TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SEEING THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS OF ELDER ABUSE CASES AND ADOPTING TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE A ONE COURT, ONE FAMILY MODEL. SO, TRYING TO PUT LOTS OF CASES INVOLVING THE SAME PEOPLE UNDER THE SAME JUDGE WHO COULD MAKE CONSISTENT ORDERS AND COULD MONITOR COMPLIANCE VERY EFFECTIVELY, AND I HAVE SEEN OTHER JUDGES REALLY LEAD BY SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS A MUCH MORE ELDER-FRIENDLY COURT, BOTH BY THE TIME THAT WE BRING THE COURT INTO SESSION. WE'RE NOT SETTING THINGS FOR 8:30 IN THE MORNING, WHICH MIGHT BE CONVENIENT FOR US BUT CERTAINLY IS NOT USUALLY CONVENIENT FOR OLDER ADULTS. AND WE'RE GOING TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE CAN DO REMOTE OR TELE-TYPE CONFERENCING AND HEARINGS SO THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY TRAVELING DON'T HAVE TO OR THEY CAN TRAVEL TO A CENTER RUN BY THE COURT OR OVERSEEN BY THE COURT THAT'S MUCH MORE LOCALIZED WHERE THEY LIVE AND DOING THAT IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE TO TRAVEL VERY LONG DISTANCES. A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF LEADERSHIP IDEAS WHERE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE JUST NEED TO DO BETTER NOW THAT WE BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE NEEDS OF OLDER ADULTS WHO MAY SEEK REDRESS FROM THE COURT CAN GET THAT ACCESS THAT THEY'RE ENTITLED TO. SO, THOSE WERE SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT I HAVE SEEN AND WHAT COURTS HAVE TALKED -- WHAT INDIVIDUAL JUDGES HAVE TALKED ABOUT. THE ONE OTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, AND THIS DOES TAKE US BACK TO HOW THE CALIFORNIA TRAINING IS DONE, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, WHERE JUDGE JUHAS IS WELCOMING PEOPLE TO THE THREE-DAY COURSE, SOME OF THE OVERARCHING IDEAS THAT ARE PART OF THAT OPENING SECTION ARE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR ROLE AS A JUDGE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR ROLE AS A JUDICIAL LEADER IN YOUR COURTROOM, IN YOUR COURTHOUSE, AND IN YOUR COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S A THEME THAT WE RETURN TO THROUGHOUT THE COURSE, AND THEN AT THE END OF THE COURSE, WE KIND OF BRING THAT SECTION TOGETHER FOR THOUGHTS OF WHAT JUDGES THINK THEY CAN DO AND WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO DO, AND BY PLANTING THAT SEED VERY EARLY AS AN EXPECTATION, BY BRINGING IT UP AND PRESENTING DIFFERENT IDEAS AND PRACTICES THROUGHOUT THE TRAINING, BY THE TIME WE BRING IT BACK AROUND AT THE END, THEY HAVE HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THINK ABOUT AND APPLY IDEAS AND TALK TO DIFFERENT EXPERTS WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINERS IN THE COURSE TO DEVELOP THOSE IDEAS, AND WE'RE SEEING SOME REALLY THOUGHTFUL SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS COMING FORTH. >> NOT ONLY THE -- I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD, JEN. >> NO, GO AHEAD, JUDGE. >> NOT ONLY THE POWER, I THINK, OF CONVENING AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS IMPORTANT, BUT ALSO, WE SHOULDN'T MINIMIZE THE POWER OF ONE JUDGE THAT SAYS, I'M GOING TO DO THIS, AND IF THIS IS WHAT WE'RE -- WE'RE GOING TO TRY IT, AND I'M WILLING TO PIVOT IF IT DOESN'T WORK, AND I CAN CONTROL THE FOUR CORNERS OF MY COURTROOM AND ALL THAT. I THINK ONE AREA THAT WAS GOOD FROM THE PANDEMIC IS THE REMOTE APPEARANCES, THE -- ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. MANY JUDGES ARE RELUCTANT TO DO REMOTE APPEARANCES, AND SOMETIMES WHAT IT TAKES IS A JUDGE TO STAND UP AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? LOOK, I UNDERSTAND THAT REMOTE APPEARANCES ARE NOT WITHOUT WARTS. I GET THAT. BUT HERE'S HOW THEY'RE GOOD. THIS IS WHY THEY'RE GOOD. AND THIS IS HOW I'VE HANDLED IT IN MY COURTROOM AND ALL OF THAT. AND JUST HAVING THAT ONE JUDGE THAT'S WILLING TO GO OUT ON A LIMB AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO, I THINK, CAN BECOME REALLY, REALLY POWERFUL. THE OTHER THING IMPACT TO MAKE SURE, THOUGH, THAT GETS SAID AS PART OF THIS DISCUSSION IS THE -- WHATEVER CHANGE HAPPENS NEEDS TO BE INSTITUTIONALIZED, SO THE INSTANT THAT JUDGE DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, JUDGE SMITH HAS THIS GREAT IDEA AND MAKES IT HAPPEN AND IT'S GOING GREAT GUNS AND ALL OF THAT, AND THEN JUDGE SMITH GETS TRANSFERRED TO CRIMINAL OR RETIRES OR WHATEVER, AND THEN IT ALL GOES SIDEWAYS. SO, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IN THAT JUDICIAL LEADERSHIP PIECE TO THINK ABOUT, HOW DO I DO THIS AND GET IT STARTED, AND IF IT'S WORKING, HOW DO I THEN INSTITUTIONALIZE IT AND KEEP IT GOING? HOW DO I FIND MY SUCCESSOR, OR HOW DO I MAKE IT UNDER THE THEORY OF ENLIGHTENED SELF-INTEREST FOR THE COURT, HOW DO I MAKE IT SO CLEAR TO THE COURT THAT THEY CANNOT LET THIS PROGRAM GO JUST BECAUSE I'M GOING? >> I THINK THAT'S SO IMPORTANT, AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE OFTEN DO WITH JUDGES THAT COME TO OUR NATIONAL TRAINING IS, AT THE END OF IT, WE'LL SAY -- WE GO AROUND THE ROOM AND SAY, SAY ONE THING YOU'RE GOING TO DO DIFFERENTLY AS A RESULT OF THIS PROGRAM. WE'VE HEARD REALLY GREAT THINGS. THINGS THAT MAKE ME WANT TO CRY SOMETIMES. JUST WITH THE SORT OF PRIVILEGE OF BEING AROUND PEOPLE WHO REALLY, I BELIEVE, SHOW UP EVERY DAY TRYING TO DO THE BEST JOB THEY CAN DO AND SEEING PEOPLE BE INSPIRED TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, I THINK, IS JUST A REALLY BEAUTIFUL THING. AND ONE OF -- A COUPLE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE HEARD OVER THE YEARS AND ONE OF OUR FACULTY BRINGS UP A LOT, ONE OF OUR OTHER FACULTY, IS JUST THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE YOUR FORMS HAVE FONTS THAT ARE BIG ENOUGH, RIGHT? SIMPLE THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ARE ACCESS ISSUES, THAT A JUDGE CAN SAY, LIKE, DO A LITTLE BIT OF A INFORMAL AUDIT OF YOUR FORMS AND YOUR PROCESSES AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT ACCESSIBLE OR IT'S NOT FRIENDLY FOR OLDER PEOPLE OR PEOPLE WITH ANY KIND OF, MAYBE, EXPERIENCING ANY KIND OF DISABILITY, FOR INSTANCE. YOU ALREADY MENTIONED THE TIMING, SETTING UP CALENDARING IN A WAY THAT MIGHT BE MORE BENEFICIAL FOR OLDER FOLKS OR VIRTUAL HEARINGS AND SUCH. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS, AND IT LEADS ME TO A QUESTION THAT CAME UP IN THE Q&A, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ONE OF OUR FACULTY TALKS ABOUT ALL THE TIME IS GUARDIANSHIP CASES, AND SHE TALKS ABOUT DOING THIS WORK REALLY OPENED HER EYES TO REALLY HAVING THE EYE FOR ABUSE THAT MAY BE OCCURRING EITHER BECAUSE THE PERSON USING ABUSE -- USING VIOLENCE IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO BE THE GUARDIAN, RIGHT, OR JUST THAT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER ABUSE HAPPENING BY THE GUARDIAN OR ABUSE OF THE SYSTEM, ABUSE OF THE PROCESS. AND SHE TALKED ABOUT, AS A LEADERSHIP OPPORTUNITY, CREATING A CONTRACT FOR GUARDIANS, POTENTIAL GUARDIANS THAT COME BEFORE HER IN COURT SO THEY CAN -- THEY ARE VERY AWARE, THEY HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO, THAT THERE'S SOME SORT OF OVERSIGHT, THAT SHE HAS THEM COME BACK IN EVERY FEW MONTHS TO DO REVIEW HEARINGS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WERE NOT AUTOMATICALLY HAPPENING IN HER COURT. SO, IT'S OPPORTUNITIES LIKE THAT, AND OTHER JUDGES WILL SAY, WOW, I NEVER REALLY THOUGHT OF THAT. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I, TOO, CAN DO. AND THAT BRINGS ME TO THE QUESTION THAT CAME UP IN THE CHAT -- NOT THE CHAT, THE Q&A A SECOND AGO, WHICH WAS, DO YOU SEE A LOT OF ELDER ABUSE IN GUARDIANSHIP CASES? AND I WONDER -- I'LL ASK JUDGE JUHAS, YOU FIRST, IF YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED MUCH OF THAT, AND THEN I'LL GO TO CANDACE. >> SO, I HAVEN'T, AND THE REASON I HAVEN'T IS THE WAY THAT OUR COURTS -- OUR COURT DIVIDES THE WORK. AS I SAID EARLIER, WE'VE GOT 650 JUDGES, SO WE'RE -- WE HAVE THE LUXURY OF HAVING VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS THAT DO VARIOUS PARTS OF THE LAW, AND IN MY DEPARTMENT, I DON'T DO GUARDIANSHIPS. THOSE ARE DONE IN A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT. PERSONALLY, THE ANSWER IS, NO. >> CANDACE, DID YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON IT? >> WELL, I'VE NEVER BEEN A JUDGE, SO I CAN ONLY RELATE WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY OTHER JUDGES AND COURT STAFF, AND WHEN I WAS A PROSECUTOR, WE STARTED HAVING CASES THAT OVERLAPPED OTHER -- NOT JUST THE CRIMINAL DEPARTMENTS BUT WERE ALSO APPEARING IN FAMILY COURT BUT EVEN MORE WERE APPEARING IN PROBATE, AND SO, WE REALIZED, WE, MEANING WE AS PROSECUTORS, REALIZED THAT WE HAD CASES THAT WERE ALSO OVER IN THE PROBATE DEPARTMENT, AND THE PROBATE DEPARTMENT, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THE INVESTIGATORS, WERE REALIZING THE SAME THING. WE ALSO, AT THAT TIME, HAD JUDGES SITTING IN THE PROBATE ASSIGNMENT WHO HAD BEEN CRIMINAL COURT JUDGES, AND SO, WE STARTED DOING SORT OF CHECKING WITH EACH OTHER, DO YOU HAVE A CASE? WE'RE SEEING THIS. AND ON A FEW OCCASIONS, CASES THAT WERE IN THE PROBATE DEPARTMENT, WHICH HAD NEVER BEEN REPORTED AS CRIMINAL CONDUCT, STARTED GETTING REPORTED TO US, AND THAT'S HOW WE STARTED REALIZING HOW FREQUENTLY THERE WAS OVERLAP. THERE WAS A JUDGE WHO HAD BEEN A CRIMINAL JUDGE WHO WAS SITTING IN PROBATE WHO FAMOUSLY IS REPORTED TO HAVE SAID, I SEE MORE CRIMINAL CONDUCT HERE IN PROBATE THAN I DO IN -- THAN EVER WHEN I WAS SITTING IN A CRIMINAL COURT ASSIGNMENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT, BUT IT WAS REPORTED THAT HE DID, AND I THINK IT JUST MAKES THE POINT THAT THERE'S ELDER ABUSE THAT'S COMING TO PROBATE COURT THAT IS NOT FINDING ITS WAY TO OTHER COURTS. AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THERE ARE CRIMINAL CASES THAT WE ARE SEEING WHERE THERE IS A ROLE FOR THE PROBATE COURT TO PLAY, WHETHER IT'S CONCERNING THE PERSON WHO'S BEEN HARMED, THE VICTIM OF THE CRIMINAL CASE, OR THE PERSON CAUSING THE HARM, THE PERPETRATOR, WHO MAY BE PERPETRATING ACTS OF ELDER ABUSE WHERE THAT PERSON MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF AN ORGANIC CONDITION WHERE THEY REALLY DO REQUIRE CONSERVATORSHIP OR GUARDIANSHIP. AND SO, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW ARE WAYS GOING FORWARD THAT WE CAN -- JUDGES CAN ETHICALLY WORK WITH CRIMINAL PRACTITIONERS AND THE CRIMINAL COURT AND THE CRIMINAL PRACTITIONERS CAN WORK WITH THE PROBATE COURT AS A KIND OF A NEW FRONTIER WHERE, YES, WE NEED TO BE TALKING TO EACH OTHER. >> AND I THINK FOR SURE THAT ONE OF THE AREAS THAT COMES UP MOST FREQUENTLY FOR US WITH JUDGES IS JUST CHALLENGES RELATED TO GUARDIANSHIPS, JUST ACROSS THE BOARD. I MEAN, IT JUST COMES UP CONSTANTLY. IT'S ONE OF OUR MOST FREQUENT REQUESTS FOR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE. >> THERE HAVE BEEN SOME PROJECTS TO DEVELOP TOOLS FOR JUDGES TO HELP THEM THINK THROUGH IN GUARDIANSHIP MATTERS, IS THIS A CASE WHERE WE REALLY NEED A PLENARY GUARDIANSHIP? CAN WE DO A TEMPORARY? CAN WE DO SOMETHING LESS THAN A GUARDIANSHIP? CAN WE RESTRICT POWERS? IS THIS EVEN A CASE WHERE WE NEED TO BE DOING A GUARDIANSHIP? AND A PROJECT THAT WAS DONE THAT LED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF A TOOL THAT'S NOW ON THE ELDER JUSTICE WEBSITE CALLED, I THINK, JUDICIAL GUARDIANSHIP WORKSHEET. IT'S REALLY -- IT WAS DEVELOPED BECAUSE JUDGES WERE STRUGGLING WITH THINKING ABOUT, IS IT GUARDIANSHIP OR NOTHING? IS THERE A MIDDLE WAY? HOW DO I THINK ABOUT RETAINING ABILITIES? HOW DO I MAKE THE CALL THAT THIS ONE REALLY NEEDS THE FULL GUARDIANSHIP, BUT THIS ONE, WE COULD DO SOMETHING ELSE? AND WHAT I'M HEARING FROM JUDGES STRUGGLING WITH THAT QUESTION IS, THEY OFTEN DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE COMMUNITY RESOURCES THAT COULD HELP A FAMILY WITH SUPPORTIVE DECISION MAKING OR IS THERE AN APPROPRIATE, LESS RESTRICTIVE ALTERNATIVE THAT THE SUBJECT OF THE GUARDIANSHIP COULD EXECUTE? DO THEY STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO EXECUTE A POWER OF ATTORNEY, AND WOULD A POWER OF ATTORNEY WORK? ARE THERE -- CAN THEY USE AID PROGRAMS? ARE THERE OTHER LESS RESTRICTIVE ALTERNATIVES? AND JUDGES EITHER UNAWARE OF THOSE THINGS OR IN SOME COMMUNITIES, THOSE PROGRAMS DON'T REALLY EXIST, AND SO FOR JUDGES IN A COMMUNITY LIKE THAT, THEIR OPTIONS ARE PRETTY NARROW. >> AND I THINK FOR GOOD OR ILL, THE BRITNEY SPEARS SITUATION HERE IN LOS ANGELES HAS SHONE A REMARKABLY BRIGHT LIGHT ON GUARDIANSHIPS AND WHAT HAPPENS IN GUARDIANSHIPS AND ALL OF THAT. I KNOW THE CALIFORNIA LEGISLATURE REACTED TO, AND I SUSPECT THE DISCUSSION IS JUST KIND OF GETTING STARTED. TO CANDACE'S POINT, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY DOORS INTO A COURTHOUSE, A CIVIL RESTRAINING ORDER -- A CIVIL ABUSE IN LATER LIFE RESTRAINING ORDER REQUIRES SOMEONE TO BRING ONE. THE POLICE MAY NEVER GET INVOLVED FOR ANY NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS. THE ABUSED MAY NOT WANT TO BRING A CIVIL RESTRAINING ORDER FOR FEAR OF ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS OR NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT KNOWING THAT THEY CAN -- THAT THAT OPTION IS AVAILABLE TO THEM. SO, I THINK, AGAIN, THE IDEA OF BREAKING DOWN SILOS BECOMES REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. >> SPEAKING OF SILOS, WE DID RECEIVE A QUESTION ABOUT ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, AND I SAY, SPEAKING OF SILOS, BECAUSE WORKING WITH -- WORKING OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN BOX AND WORKING WITH ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, OFTENTIMES, JUDGES, WE HAVE FOUND, DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW A WHOLE TON ABOUT ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES AND WHAT IS THE MANDATE OF APS, HOW THAT CAN BE DIFFERENT IN DIFFERENT PLACES, AND IN OUR QUESTION FROM AN ATTENDEE, IT WAS MENTIONED ABOUT MORE OF CALLING APS. THAT HAVING APS COME TO AN INDIVIDUAL WHO MIGHT SAY THEY DO NOT FEEL SAFE, FOR INSTANCE, IN A MEDICAL CONTEXT, RIGHT? THAT THEY WON'T -- THEY DON'T FEEL FREE TO SAY THAT BECAUSE OF THE FEAR OF APS COMING. CANDACE, I KNOW YOU WORK OFTENTIMES WITH APS. YOU MAY AS WELL, JUDGE. ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT APS, WORKING WITH APS THAT YOU THINK FOLKS MIGHT FIND VALUABLE? >> SO, WHERE I WOULD START IS, THERE IS NOT ONE APS PROGRAM. EVERY STATE HAS A PROGRAM. THERE ARE HUGE VARIATIONS BETWEEN THE AUTHORITY AND ELIGIBILITY FOR APS, SO FOR FOLKS WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT JUDICIAL TRAINING, ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE A CALIFORNIA APS PERSON PRESENT AT THE JUDGES CONFERENCE, AT THE JUDGES TRAINING COURSE, IS BECAUSE THEY CAN TELL WHAT'S THE ROLE IN CALIFORNIA, AND WHAT DO THEY DO IF THIS SITUATION HAPPENS? CAN THEY SHARE INFORMATION? AND JUDGES GET A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT THE ETHICAL ASPECTS OF, CAN I REFER A CASE TO APS? CAN I MAKE A REPORT? CAN I ASK APS FOR THEIR FILES? AND THE ANSWERS VARY QUITE A LOT DEPENDING ON THE JUDICIAL ASSIGNMENT. JUDGES SITTING IN A PROBATE ASSIGNMENT HAVE MUCH MORE ACCESS, LEGAL ACCESS, TO APS AND APS INFORMATION THAN, SAY, A CRIMINAL COURT JUDGE OR I'LL TURN TO JUDGE JUHAS AND SAY, OR I WOULD GUESS I WOULD BELIEVE A FAMILY COURT JUDGE. SO, THE FIRST THING I WOULD SAY IS THERE'S VALUE TO HAVING DISCUSSION OF THE ROLE OF APS IN AN INDIVIDUAL STATE'S PROGRAM, BECAUSE THERE'S NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL THAT I CAN ADDRESS. TO THE QUESTION OF, DO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED HESITATE TO OPENLY SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT VICTIMIZATION WITH A VARIETY OF PROFESSIONALS BECAUSE OF THE FEAR OF MANDATORY REPORTING, YES, THAT IS A REALITY. IT'S ESPECIALLY A REALITY IN FAMILY VIOLENCE AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SITUATIONS. AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT NOT ALL APS PROGRAMS HAVE EFFECTIVELY DEVELOPED RELATIONSHIPS WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT COMMUNITY PROVIDERS. AND SO, FOR SOME VICTIMS, IT CAN BE A LAND MINE IF THEY DO SHARE. WE TALKED TO MANDATORY REPORTERS LIKE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS OR VICTIM SERVICE ADVOCATES WHO MAY BE CRIMINAL JUSTICE BASED AND TALK ABOUT ETHICAL COMMUNICATION, OF TELLING PEOPLE BEFORE YOU START ASKING THEM WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WHAT THE LIMITS OF CONFIDENTIALITY LOOK LIKE SO PEOPLE CAN MAKE AN INFORMED JUDGMENT. WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING WARM HANDOFFS AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE VARIOUS COMMUNITY PROVIDERS SO THAT IF A VICTIM DOESN'T FEEL SAFE SHARING WITH YOU, THEY STILL UNDERSTAND RESOURCES THEY MAY ACCESS THAT MAY BE ABLE TO HELP THEM WITH CONFIDENTIAL SERVICES IN WAYS THAT PROTECT THEIR SAFETY. AND I THINK IT'S A COMPLEX QUESTION OF, HOW DO WE TALK TO PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE A DUTY TO REPORT, HOW DO WE TALK TO THEM ABOUT LEGAL RESPONSIBILITIES AND CONFIDENTIALITY AND INFORMATION SHARING? THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT THE COURT MAY PLAY A ROLE IN ANY OF THAT, IN PROVIDING INFORMATION, IN APPROVING DISCOVERY ORDERS AND THE LIKE, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THOSE DISCUSSIONS HAPPEN, BECAUSE YOU MAY WELL INADVERTENTLY BE PUTTING SOMEONE'S SAFETY AT RISK. >> RIGHT. >> AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU MAY DISCOURAGE SOMEONE FROM EVER SEEKING HELP AGAIN. >> WELL, AND THERE'S TREMENDOUS DISCRETION AT APS, AND SO SORT OF ONE OF MY TAKEAWAYS ABOUT APS IS IT VARIES LARGELY COUNTY TO COUNTY. HOW MUCH RESOURCES DOES THE APS HAVE IN THAT PARTICULAR COUNTY? HOW AGGRESSIVE ARE THE PEOPLE AT APS? YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND SO I THINK THAT ALSO BECOMES IMPORTANT THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR APS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS GOING TO BE DOING OR NOT DOING. AND THEN, FROM A JUDICIAL STANDPOINT, CALLING APS, THE FEAR FROM A JUDGE IS THAT I'M NOW GOING TO BE COMPLAINED ABOUT AS BEING EMBROILED IN THE CASE. SO, WHERE DOES MY JUDICIAL ETHICS STOP AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE LINE YOU HAVE TO DRAW? AND AS WITH MANY, MANY PARTS OF JUDICIAL ETHICS, IT'S HIGHLY DROOEGS DEPRECIATION AND NOT AT DISCRETIONARY AND NOT AT ALL CLEAR. THERE'S THINGS TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AROUND APS THAT VARY SIGNIFICANTLY FROM LOCATION TO LOCATION. >> SO, I HAD A LIST OF TEN QUESTIONS THAT WE WERE GOING TO COVER TODAY, AND I HAVE COVERED, LIKE, TWO OF THEM BECAUSE IT WAS JUST -- HAS BEEN DELIGHTFUL TO JUST CHAT WITH YOU BOTH ABOUT THIS TOPIC THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US, AND I HAVE CHOSEN ONE MORE QUESTION FOR US TO FOCUS ON IN OUR REMAINING TIME. HOWEVER, I DID WANT TO GIVE FOLKS IN THE AUDIENCE A CHANCE IF THEY HAVE BURNING QUESTIONS TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES NOW, AND IF WE HAVE TIME AFTER THAT, I'LL POSE MY REMAINING QUESTION. SO, FOLKS WHO ARE ON THE CALL, IF YOU WANT TO PUT ANY QUESTIONS IN THE CHAT, GO RIGHT AHEAD. AND WE WILL ADDRESS THEM. WHILE WE'RE -- LET'S SEE. NANCY'S MAKING A COMMENT. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS A QUESTION. DISCUSSING THE SITUATION WITH ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES, I BELIEVE. AND SOME OF THE FEAR THAT FOLKS HAVE AROUND REPORTING. SO, I WONDER, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE TRAINING THAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN DOING, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE AREAS THAT JUDGES ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE MOST WHEN IT COMES TO ABUSE IN LATER LIFE? WE'VE MENTIONED GUARDIANSHIPS. IF THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT COME TO MIND THAT YOU SEE A LOT OF STRUGGLE WITH >> CANDACE, DO YOU WANT TO -- I THINK THE SITUATIONS ARE -- AS WITH ANY ABUSE SITUATION, THEY'RE REMARKABLY COMPLEX. THE FAMILY DYNAMIC, YOU KNOW, IS CHALLENGING FROM FAMILY TO FAMILY TO FAMILY, AND FROM RELATIONSHIP TO RELATIONSHIP INSIDE THE SAME FAMILY. I THINK THAT GETTING THE INFORMATION THAT IS NEEDED TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION OR THE BEST DECISION A JUDGE CAN BECOMES VERY, VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE RELUCTANT TO TALK OUT OF FEAR OR OUT OF PROTECTION OR OUT OF NOT KNOWING OR OUT OF ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT REASONS. SO, I THINK JUST THE, YOU KNOW, THE LOGISTICS, THE MECHANISM, IF YOU WILL, OF, HOW DO YOU GET THE INFORMATION IS ONE THING THAT JUDGES, I THINK, STRUGGLE WITH. AND THEN, AGAIN, AS I SAID, SINCE WE'RE 20, 25 YEARS BEHIND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, I THINK HAVING AN IDEA OF WHAT RESOURCES ARE THERE, HOW THEY WORK, HOW YOU REFER TO THEM, ALL OF THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, I THINK, ALSO BECOMES CHALLENGING AND DIFFICULT. I THINK ONE OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PETS. WE'RE LEARNING SO MUCH MORE ABOUT HOW ABUSE OF PETS FALLS INTO THIS, AND WE'RE LEARNING SO MUCH MORE ABOUT HOW GUN VIOLENCE RELATES TO DV AND ABUSE. WE'RE LEARNING SO MUCH MORE AS TIME GOES ON THAT I THINK, SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, I'M ALWAYS CONCERNED THAT THERE'S SOME SOME SUBTLETY THAT I'M NOT SEEING THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DIG IT OUT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET TO IT. SO, I THINK THOSE ARE THE KIND OF CONCERNS THAT I SEE JUDGES STRUGGLING WITH. >> ABSOLUTELY. CANDACE? >> I WOULD ADD, I THINK JUDGES STRUGGLE BETWEEN CONCEPTS OF PROTECTION AND RESPECTING PERSONAL AUTONOMY OF AN OLDER ADULT, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT'S EVIDENT THAT BAD THINGS HAVE HAPPENED AND ARE LIKELY TO CONTINUE AND/OR HAVE A REALLY TERRIBLE END. IT'S NOT AS IF I HAVE GOOD ANSWERS FOR THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S -- I ADMIRE JUDGES WHO STRUGGLE WITH THAT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S THE ESSENCE OF WHY WE HAVE JUDGES AND THE IMPORTANT ROLE THEY PLAY. I THINK AN EMERGING QUESTION IS GOING TO BE, MOVING FORWARD, HOW DO WE DEAL WITH OLDER PERPETRATORS WHO HAVE DEMENTIA? AND WHO HAVE BECOME VIOLENT, WHETHER THEY WERE IN YOUNGER LIFE OR NOT. WHAT ARE THE LEGAL AVAILABLE ALTERNATIVES, AND DO THEY WORK? HOW DO WE BALANCE PROTECTION OF THE VICTIM WITH THE VICTIM'S DESIRE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT LOVED ONE? HOW DO MENTAL HEALTH LAWS AVAILABLE IN A PARTICULAR STATE FIT THE NEEDS OF THIS POPULATION? I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER VERY BIG STRUGGLE THAT I'M SEEING AND THAT I THINK WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE. AND THEN, I THINK, SINCE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT JUDICIAL EDUCATION, PARTICULARLY AROUND ABUSE IN LATER LIFE, I THINK A STRUGGLE THAT MAY NOT BE INDIVIDUAL TO JUDGES BUT MAY BE SYSTEMWIDE, IS MAKING SURE THAT JUDICIAL EDUCATION ON THIS SUBJECT REMAINS AVAILABLE, IS CONSTANTLY UPDATED AND MADE RELEVANT TO THE REALITIES OF AN INDIVIDUAL STATE AND ALSO TO WHAT WE'RE LEARNING EVERY DAY AND EVERY YEAR ABOUT OLDER ADULTS. JUDGE JUHAS MADE A POINT THAT OUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ELDER ABUSE IS TRAILING BEHIND. IN THE YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING IN THIS FIELD, I'VE SEEN AN INCREDIBLE SEA CHANGE. HAVING SAID THAT, WE STILL HAVE SO MUCH MORE WE NEED TO KNOW, AND MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN GET NEEDED INFORMATION SO THAT JUDGES CAN BE FULLY INFORMED AND MAKE COMPETENT AND THOUGHTFUL DECISIONS, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A CONTINUING CHALLENGE FOR VERY MANY YEARS AHEAD. >> AND TO THAT POINT, MY MAJOR TAKEAWAY POINT FROM THIS IS FOR FOLKS LISTENING, PLEASE, IF YOU ARE A JUDGE, IF YOU WORK WITH JUDGES, IF YOU'RE A GRANTEE COMMUNITY AND YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO ENCOURAGE JUDGES, PLEASE DO ENCOURAGE THEM TO SEEK OUT JUDICIAL EDUCATION TO COME TO OUR INSTITUTE OR TO SEEK OUT ADDITIONAL TRAINING AND TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE ON ELDER ABUSE AND ABUSE IN LATER LIFE. IT REALLY IS A FIELD THAT THE NEED FOR JUDGES TO REALLY HAVE TOOLS TO HANDLE THESE CASES IS GOING TO BECOME MORE AND MORE IMPORTANT WITH THE POPULATION INCREASES AND WITH LOTS OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED TODAY. IT HAS BEEN MY PLEASURE TO CHAT WITH YOU TODAY. THANK YOU SO, SO MUCH AS EVER FOR BEING HERE. AND SHARING YOUR WISDOM WITH US. IT WAS WONDERFUL. >> THANK YOU. >> IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE. THANK YOU, JEN. >> THANK YOU. ANYBODY HAS ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS THAT WE COULDN'T ADDRESS, PLEASE DO CONTACT US AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. >> VERY GOOD. >> HAVE A WONDERFUL REST OF YOUR DAY. >> BYE-BYE. THANK YOU.